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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #3099  by Jim Norfolk
 15 May 2019, 08:31
Mick sounds just like my swarm yesterday. I have never come across swarming on uncapped QCs before then two come along at once. One thing we have in common is its been b cold with winds off the N sea and the weather has suddenly improved. Could be bees grabbing their chance and just maybe they can forecast the weather.

I don't know much about Buckfasts but listening to a man who does, last Saturday, I formed the impression that they ain't what Bro Adam would recognize as Buckfast and the parent strains currently put into the mix varies. In other words they are designer hybrids. I suspect the good ones are very good but many are just fastbuck bees.

Cue Nigel ;)
 #3100  by AdamD
 15 May 2019, 11:10
Regarding Buckfasts, a few years ago there were people selling them that came from 'working Buckfasts' mated with local drones. So the outcome would be quite variable and they could be F1,2,3. There are some breeders who have a good reputation for quality Buckfast queens. Same goes for Carnica.
 #3101  by AdamD
 15 May 2019, 11:16
SimnFishr wrote:
14 May 2019, 19:35
Thanks Adam,
The swarmed hive seemed to have space (bees not using all brood frames and had 2 supers).
The swarm (19th April) was captured and hived but subsequently absonded. I cut out all queen cells apart from one then 2 days later cut out 3 emergency queen cells.

Sometimes you need to keep going back to check on queencells - something Roger P had mentioned in the previous forum that bees seem to 'hold back' queencells somehow (maybe in a cooler part of the hive?) and then catch you out by rearing a queencell later that you would have expected.
 #3102  by AdamD
 15 May 2019, 11:35
Jim Norfolk wrote:
14 May 2019, 18:51
Adam, my two year old queen swarmed today. All the swarming bees went back in as expected.but afterwards I found the clipped queen on the ground in front of the hive and moved her into a nuc. I went through the broodbox expecting to find capped queen cells but found just two healthy open queen cells. Clearly not swarmy bees as they didn't swarm last year. They may even have been going to supercede but became a bit over enthusiastic in the sudden warm and sunny weather. A huge colony on double brood with two supers and a brood box being used as a super, but not short of space. My other colony, a split from the first last July, has also made preparations to swarm with just a few queen cells developing, so swarminess may have a lot to do with weather prospects and how advanced a colony is for the time of year.

Interesting to know if anyone else is getting more than the usual number of colonies swarming.
Not yet Jim - but you never know!

With regard to your queen, I believe that there is a view that fewer queencells indicates a less swarmy nature - so a couple could be just that rather than 20. However 2 is more likely supercedure, as you suggest except they didn't supercede! Was the brood pattern OK? Any excess drone brood?
 #3106  by Jim Norfolk
 15 May 2019, 13:35
Adam there was very litle drone brood. When I went through to look for queen cells after they swarmed, I noticed a lack of new laying so much so that there were two fully drawn foundationless frames, which were a mixture of worker and drone cells, without an egg or larva in any of them. Those frames went in 3 weeks ago and were half drawn by the end of April when I last inspected. The bees would have noticed this lack of laying and taken action. I still think it was a supercedure but for some reason they decided to swarm. Roger on the Dave Cushman website states " If more than one supersedure cell is left in a colony in the summer there is likely to be a swarm, whether the queen is clipped or not" A pity I was unable to inspect since the end of April due to cold wind off the sea or I might have seen it coming. I think the queen may have been turning egg laying on and off in response to the weather. Interesting to see whether she starts up again in the nuc.
 #3107  by NigelP
 15 May 2019, 16:37
Jim Norfolk wrote:
15 May 2019, 08:31
I don't know much about Buckfasts but listening to a man who does, last Saturday, I formed the impression that they ain't what Bro Adam would recognize as Buckfast and the parent strains currently put into the mix varies. In other words they are designer hybrids. I suspect the good ones are very good but many are just fastbuck bees.

Cue Nigel ;)
On cue. :)
They are designer hybrids. Always have been. Br Adam produced several lines of Buckfast, many of which are still maintained with II by the better Buckfast breeders. There have been a few inputs of fresh genetic material....all recorded by the breeders and these lines assessed before qualifying. The crosses are all documented and available on line for anyone to assess.
Essentially you need to find a decent breeder....(non of whom advertise in the glossies) and purchase from them.
And as with anything bee like you have play the numbers game, a few queens will not be of the required standard. I have a couple of disappointments at the moment.... but then I have another couple from the same batch that are excellent. They are not all winners. However the disappointments are still streets ahead of my local bees...just not in the top dog league.

Currently one breeder is now selling VSH Buckfast queens....they are the only type of bee I know of that are commercially available with that trait.
 #3114  by AdamD
 16 May 2019, 18:44
Jim Norfolk wrote:
15 May 2019, 13:35
Roger on the Dave Cushman website states " If more than one supersedure cell is left in a colony in the summer there is likely to be a swarm, whether the queen is clipped or not"
I guess it could be something called "Swarmcedure" ?
 #3115  by AdamD
 16 May 2019, 18:46
NigelP wrote:
15 May 2019, 16:37

Currently one breeder is now selling VSH Buckfast queens....they are the only type of bee I know of that are commercially available with that trait.
There could well be Carnica ones around soon as well.
 #3119  by NigelP
 16 May 2019, 22:12
AdamD wrote:
16 May 2019, 18:46

There could well be Carnica ones around soon as well.
There is a pan European carnica VSH + other improvements) programme that is having remarkable success...but queens are not commercially available (yet). One of the breeders failed the new BBKA breeding module....says a lot.
 #3132  by AdamD
 17 May 2019, 13:52
Carniolans have a reputation for being swarmy, although one would hope that the breeding programme would be different to someone in a warm country just producing swarmy bees for simple profit. Carni's might mate with locals better than Buckfasts which would also be good.
It will be interesting to see whether the VSH results in bees that "sort of cope" with varroa but fail to thrive in that way that colonies treated for varroa can and often do.