BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Walk away splits? Who does em? What do ya think?

  • Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
 #7466  by Chrisbarlow
 28 May 2020, 22:38
Patrick wrote:
28 May 2020, 19:02
Would I use it as a method to raise 100 queen cells, no. Would I use it if I only had one or two colonies? Yup. :D
I think there lies the lesson.

Most Beekeepers are shown nothing about raising a new queen. Many Beekeepers only have a couple of colonies, these Beekeepers IMO are a majority and should if any one be raising new queens with walk away splits, anything to improve local stock and bring an element of sustainability to their Beekeeping but many Beekeepers dare I say are arrogant and Believe queens must be produced in the most difficult method they can think off when actually many Beekeepers would just be happy getting an extra nuc up and running each year. Just a thought.
 #7470  by Patrick
 28 May 2020, 23:42
Summed up entirely Chris👍.

Online raising queens has become somewhat cornered by commercial operators producing industrial quantities of cells with serried rows of mating nucs. I understand there is a advertorial angle to this beyond the informational (sorry for that 🙄), but it is like trying to learn to bake a loaf of bread at home by watching factory tours of Hovis.

No wonder most hobbyists answer to beekeeping issues seems at the moment “where can I buy a queen from?” A great exception is the Sustainable Apiary Honey Show Lecture by Michael Palmer - a commercial operator advocating a principle perfectly applicable to a couple of hives operation.

As discussed in the other thread, if the local material available is okay raising your own queen or two is within the grasp of everyone. Your bees do it for you every couple of years anyway whether you want it or not! And there are a thousand and one other ways to achieve it too.

Somehow we have allowed it to be commercially mystified into something we can’t possibly do for ourselves anymore, like fixing the car or mending a leaking tap. A real practical pleasure denied. Queen rearing that is, not the plumbing bit..
 #7472  by MickBBKA
 29 May 2020, 02:38
I raise several colonies each year from my best stock. I put 3 frames of brood with queen cells in a nuc, 2 frames of stores and 1 of foundation and let them get on with it. I don't import any queens. I am fortunate that my locals are very calm, they are a bit swarmy but with proper swarm prevention I can cope with them and am slowly breeding it out....A bit...LOL. The best manage about 80-100lbs and some a bit more but they are very hostage to the local climate. It warmed up last 2 weeks and one colony managed to fill a 2nd brood box with another 8 frames of brood and filled 2 supers in 12 days. They have potential, just not the weather..DON'T GET ME STARTED ABOUT THE WEATHER...!..LOL
 #7476  by AdamD
 29 May 2020, 09:24
Just imagine in a BBKA exam you were asked how do you produce a few queens and the answer was " a walk away split mate. Works every time!" The examiner would fall off his/her chair! :lol:
 #7501  by AndrewLD
 30 May 2020, 19:29
I have been looking at four of my splits today (sitting in 6 hives - the other two I gave away):
Hive 1 - Queenright - developing well, but then I knew they had a queen :)
Hive 2 - The other half of hive 1 is still queenless - as I expected but any day now a new queen should emerge - so I only checked the supers.
Hive 3 - Queenless - moved the hive to lose bees but by this evening they had found it :(
Hive 4 - Queenright
Hive 5 - Queenless - thought it was and judging by the excitement of normally placid bees - know to back off and come back another time.
Hive 6 - Queenright but they had a nice open QC - I am guessing supercedure

What I pleased about is that I had correctly assessed them by watching the landing board and listening to the brood boxes.
I'll have to move hive 3 again or shake them out. Now it's a waiting game and we'll see if I have managed to forestall more swarming this year!
 #7773  by AndrewLD
 16 Jun 2020, 08:21
Just to update my earlier post when I reported a month ago that I had split my hives after discovering my earlier swarm control had failed.
I split 4 colonies. Some colonies were given away.

Of the 5 hives now left in my garden, all have queens.
Of the 2 that got the existing queens when I split, one is currently superceding.
One I popped a virgin queen back into the hive that had emerged from a queencell I was culling - they are doing fine.
Two have raised their own emergency queens and they are in lay.

Has it worked?
Yes in the sense that it brought an abrupt end to the swarm-fest that was going on in mid-May.
No - in the sense that all 5 colonies are now under-strength. I shall let the situation run on until the beginning of July when I may have to unite.
 #7895  by AndrewLD
 22 Jun 2020, 17:59
The finale - the last hive on which I did a walkaway split was in my out-apiary and so a month later I went over to see what had happened. These had to raise a queen from brood frames left with eggs 17th June. I left them a full super and a couple with foundation.
Lots of bees, eggs, open brood on several frames and a new super filled.
I feel like a local stock car driver who has wandered into NASCAR :o
 #9310  by Chrisbarlow
 21 Oct 2020, 11:26
The walk away splits have been a revelation this year. They certainly did what I wanted them to acheive.

Pros
They easily helped me assess mating potential for daughter queens in a given apiary to be able to assess calmess quickly and easily

Some lovely good sized queens were produced

Produced good brood patterns

It's an extremely simple method of producing back up queens in out if the way apiaries as long as you've got a spare nice box.

90% successful mating rate comparable to grafted queens

Cons
I would say another 20% of the mated queens superceded witin the season. Not an issue as bees know best but not want you want from a new queen in ideal circumstances, I tend to find the figure is much less for granted queens.


Bulk grafting is certainly my preferred method on creating good quality queens en mass but this is an excellent skill to have in the tool.box.
 #9316  by AdamD
 22 Oct 2020, 16:31
Interesting to learn of your thoughts on mating success - that walk-away splits are more reliable. Is this because you only have the odd queen trying to mate compared to a larger number when you graft, perhaps?