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  • Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
 #7711  by MickBBKA
 11 Jun 2020, 01:44
Its a bit disappointing in my humble opinion to see folks bringing in queens from god knows where. My bees are fairly productive, have a lovely nature and I have made great roads into their nature to swarm. But all that effort can be undone by imported bees. Why people think the grass is greener is a problem for the rest of us. How do you know what you are getting ? I have no idea what I am getting, but what I do know is after 7 years my bees are nice every year. But imported bees could change all of that in 1 year. I don't want to have to buy queens in every 2 years because someone wanted the holy grail of bees...

Just sayin…………………...
 #7713  by Japey Edge
 11 Jun 2020, 09:24
I see what you're saying Mick but what if your bees weren't nice? Where would you go then?

If my bees were nicer I'd not have bought in queens. On this occasion I had a swarm I collected from Billingham which weren't great, and my local bees which like to swarm too often. I needed to replace the genetics. Since the claims of the queen I have bought are that they are steady, gentle, collect loads of honey and swarm less I thought it worth the punt.
 #7718  by NigelP
 11 Jun 2020, 17:28
If I could buy UK station/Island mated breeder queens of the quality I can get from abroad I would.
They just don't exist in the UK (apart from Pete Little who struggles to meet demand due to vagaries of ,mating weather on Exmoor).
In continental Europe for 15?Euro you can send your virgin queens to get mated at station mated sites where the drone lines are carefully selected by professional breeders.
Problem in the UK is many beekeepers think mongrels breed true....they don't....you need very careful control over matings to achieve improvements in bees. Something that simply doesn't happen in the UK they are all random.
Mating bees in the UK is a bit like tossing a coin unless using II.

In m y local patch I've tried and compared just about every type of bee you can buy get for free and the locals. I know what works if you want gentle bees and oodles of honey.
Might not be the answer for everyone but works for me.
 #7722  by AdamD
 12 Jun 2020, 12:43
NigelP wrote:
11 Jun 2020, 17:28

Problem in the UK is many beekeepers think mongrels breed true....they don't....you need very careful control over matings to achieve improvements in bees. Something that simply doesn't happen in the UK they are all random.
Mating bees in the UK is a bit like tossing a coin unless using II.
I don't consider that my bees are 'true' in any sense of the word however with a fair number of my drones in the area, I can tilt the balance away from totally random to something a little better than that so my bees are generally OK.
 #7723  by NigelP
 12 Jun 2020, 13:16
At times I wish I did live in area like yours Adam or Mick's where the locals are friendly.
But when everything local tries to sting you like hell, swarms annually and produce berger all honey you need to take alternative actions. Like purchase almost guaranteed placid bees. The problem now is trying to keep the next generation placid....it's far harder than just breeding onwards as you need fresh stock at regular intervals just to keep it going before they revered back to "local" after 2-3 generations. And on top of it being harder to maintain you then get all the criticism for importing queens so you can also enjoy having placid bees .

Interestingly you mention drone saturation.
I've an ongoing experiment with a second apiary set about 1/2 mile (as bee flies) from my home apiary. The idea being that as the virgin queens fly further afield to a different Drone Congregation area than their own drones then second apiary should provide majority of drones for home apiary virgin queen matings and vice versa. As I live in a fairly isolated area and know of only 3 beekeepers (both over 2 miles away) whose drones could be involved (+ unknown feral colonies) and one of those now keeps Buckfast bees. I think I probably provide the majority of drones in this region....which is another story as to why one of those beekeepers moved his hives to where he did.
And do you know, I think it might be working (touch wood) I have 3 x 2020 F2 queens at this apiary which are currently as good as gold.
Whilst at my other out apiary (the control if you like) is 10 miles away and surrounded by bees keepers with local bees. I have 3 x 2019 F2 queens that got mated there that I am currently in the process of requeening as lousy tempered....
But it's early days we shall see where we are in a few years time before drawing any major conclusions.
 #7725  by mikemadf
 12 Jun 2020, 20:00
A local prime swarm - unmarked queen - arrived and took refuge in a nuc in our garden some three weeks ago.
She started laying immediately.
Bad tempered ,aggressive and reistant to any smoke (I have to spray water). To find here I had to do the "move brood box to one side, empty box on site, wait till all flyers out... and pair combs up" job . I was fully suited and booted..
Marked in full white so I can requeen with nicer bees ( due to be laying in two weeks)..

Those kind of bees are fit only for requeening...

Remind me who produces UK AMM queens in thousands in the UK?
And sells them at reasonable prices?
No-one..
 #7726  by AdamD
 12 Jun 2020, 20:15
mikemadf wrote:
12 Jun 2020, 20:00
Remind me who produces UK AMM queens in thousands in the UK?
And sells them at reasonable prices?
No-one..
Good point. An opportunity for BIBBA?
 #7727  by Steve 1972
 12 Jun 2020, 20:18
Local bees to my Apiery can be good and also very bad temperament wise..honey gathering qualities can be good but also bad..bad mainly..
Bought in Queens are roughly the same now and again but the amount of honey that needs spinning more than doubles from bought in Queens..
 #7760  by mikemadf
 14 Jun 2020, 18:05
AdamD wrote:
12 Jun 2020, 20:15
mikemadf wrote:
12 Jun 2020, 20:00
Remind me who produces UK AMM queens in thousands in the UK?
And sells them at reasonable prices?
No-one..
Good point. An opportunity for BIBBA?


I looked at Bibba when I started Beekeeping. Lots of words,, very little real action.

Any SERIOUS organisation would have started mass queen rearing via its members and sold queens at discount rates and made sure queens were available in Spring,

If local bees are so good . they would have wiped out the imports .. both on price and performance.

In 50 years of operation, they have never even tried that.

Which says it all really..
 #7765  by Murox
 15 Jun 2020, 10:33
mikemadf wrote:
14 Jun 2020, 18:05
I looked at Bibba when I started Beekeeping. Lots of words, very little real action.

Any SERIOUS organisation would have started mass queen rearing via its members and sold queens at discount rates and made sure queens were available in Spring,

If local bees are so good . they would have wiped out the imports .. both on price and performance.

In 50 years of operation, they have never even tried that.

Which says it all really..
Cant help but find myself agreeing with that.