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  • Pollen then nectar? Chicken or egg which came first?

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More advanced beekeeping discussion forum.
 #4130  by JohnnyLondon
 17 Jul 2019, 19:32
I imagine that pollen comes first, then the nectar. But does anyone know what happens in terms of the seasonal production of pollen and nectar flow from Spring to Autumn?
 #4133  by Caroline
 17 Jul 2019, 21:48
Not exactly sure what you are asking here.

All plants have their season. Some provide pollen, some nectar, and some both. Not all plants are good for honeybees.

Some plants flower according to the temperature, some according to the daylight hours. Hence when we get early warm temperatures, as in February this year, some trees blossom early as a result and some blossom at the 'usual' time.

It's a very wide topic. A good book helps.
 #4141  by AdamD
 18 Jul 2019, 08:40
'Plants for Beekeeping' by FN Howes is a good book to gain an understanding of what plants flower when. It is out of print now and doesn't have photographs. However it can be found second hand and is worth obtaining if you are interested in the subject. There is a new version using the original text, I believe, that does have pictures (different title). Hopefully someone will rescue me and remind us the name of the book!

Obviously nectar (sugar syrup / honey) will keep bees alive. Pollen is needed for brood rearing and it is apparent in a bad year that brooding can stop in spring if it's too cold for bees to get out and gather pollen.

A swarm will carry nectar with it so the bees can 1) stay alive and 2) draw comb to get the colony going.
 #4146  by Caroline
 18 Jul 2019, 19:10
Hi, I actually have the revised version of the book, purchased a couple of weeks ago. Sorry, I should have included in my original post.

"Plants for Bees" - A guide to the plants that benefit the bees of the British Isles.
WDJ Kirk & FN Howes.
Printed by IBRA.

I have the hard-back version (£35). My local bookshop ordered it for me.
 #4166  by Caroline
 19 Jul 2019, 16:19
AdamD wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 11:59
Thanks Caroline. It's on my 'buy' list at some time. (Unless you said that it's not any good!).
Haven't had much time to look at the book, but from what I have looked at, yes it's definitely worth buying.

Same goes for "Field Guide to the Bees of Great Britain and Ireland", by Steven Falk, Illustrated by Richard Lewington, printed by Bloomsbury. Sadly no longer printed/available in hardback (unless you want to pay £400 on ebay - origianal print cost £50!). Paperback £35. A beautiful and very useful book.
 #4169  by Chrisbarlow
 19 Jul 2019, 16:45
AdamD wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 11:59
Thanks Caroline. It's on my 'buy' list at some time. (Unless you said that it's not any good!).
I've got a 2nd hand one from the 70ies. As suggested by NP. It's brilliant for being made aware of pollen and nectar producing plants. It's a book I pick up and dip into not necessarily a book for reading from cover to cover
 #4171  by MickBBKA
 20 Jul 2019, 02:30
JohnnyLondon wrote:
17 Jul 2019, 19:32
I imagine that pollen comes first, then the nectar. But does anyone know what happens in terms of the seasonal production of pollen and nectar flow from Spring to Autumn?
In my local area pollen is very hard to come by in the Spring. Its not lack of pollen but lack of flying days to gather it. So I have worked out when to give pollen subs to allow the colonies to build up enough to give me a good honey crop when nectar becomes available. The bees still go bonkers once real pollen is available and its not unusual for them to have 4 frames in the first super about 75% full of pollen by the end of May. Nectar is not an issue as they should have sufficient stores from winter to get them through into Spring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW-43tKN_5U
 #4207  by JohnnyLondon
 22 Jul 2019, 15:11
Thanks for all responses, and to expand further on the question I can’t properly ask, mainly because I don’t understand.

I’m trying to understand when and how foraging bees decide to bring home pollen or nectar.

As pollen is necessary for bee production by the queen. Bill Anderson - a self described ‘Idle Beekeeper’, if such a thing exists, says in his very readable book (page 113) that the Queen need protein to lay eggs.

So, would foragers bring home more pollen early in the season to support colony growth? And would they subsequently focus on bringing home nectar after pollen?

I’m still confused as to the ratios of pollen and nectar which are brought home. The foragers must respond to a need, so how do they do it, and how do they know how to do it?
 #4208  by Chrisbarlow
 22 Jul 2019, 16:53
I dont think I can answer your question but I do have an opinion.

Bees need pollen and nectar. pollen being protein and nectar being carbs. They need other things as well but in simplistic terms these two.

As for the exact combination, I have no idea. I am aware that a good quality protein is up to 30% protein whilst poor quality is less than 10% protein.

I seem to be under the impression that in the 1950ies circa , an American study was done that worked out exactly what bees needed to eat. However I don't have a link.

I also believe studies have been done that when bees were fed carbs, they collected more pollen (and less nectar) and when they were fed protein the collected more nectar (and less pollen). This suggests they have an awareness of what food the colony requires. Though this shouldn't be a surprise considering that they've been around an awfully long time.

I suspect depending on the time of year, brood present, outside temperature, queen rite status and other factors, the protein/carbs requirement will be in a constant flux. I also suspect there will be times of the when they can't get enough of either is derth