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 #8590  by Chrisbarlow
 26 Aug 2020, 13:39
tried 8 frames in 3 national supers this year instead of 9, using wide spacers, although i have now realised you can get 8 frame castellations. and I prefer castellations over spacers.

Its been a great success. I think the next batch of supers I make up will now have 8 frame castellations with a 50mm spacing between frame centre points.

It came about after talking to a mate about 8 frames in a super, he had read it in an old new bee keeper book from the 60ies or 70ies. it was quite the revelation.
 #8613  by Patrick
 27 Aug 2020, 00:35
Thumbs up from me too Chris - all mine are on 8 frames to the super. I draw out foundation on narrow spacing, then after first extraction move them onto wide spacing.

Makes nice fat frames when drawn out fully again. Significantly reduces handling and extraction times. Combs remain stable in extractor even when built on thin unwired foundation, as long as you build up speed sensibly.
 #8639  by Chrisbarlow
 27 Aug 2020, 20:43
AdamD wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 17:29
I thought 8 frame castellations were for WBC's and the widest you could get was 9? (For a Nat).
I didn't know this either Adam however, looking at the thornes website they sell 8 frame castelations that fit wbc and national supers and are 49mm apart from centre points. Wide spacers from Simon the Beekeeper are 50mm apart so virtually the same.

I'll be getting some thornes castelations in their September online sale.

This is what I'm talking about, read the description about national supers

https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1872
 #8640  by Chrisbarlow
 27 Aug 2020, 20:44
Patrick wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 00:35
Thumbs up from me too Chris - all mine are on 8 frames to the super. I draw out foundation on narrow spacing, then after first extraction move them onto wide spacing.

Makes nice fat frames when drawn out fully again. Significantly reduces handling and extraction times. Combs remain stable in extractor even when built on thin unwired foundation, as long as you build up speed sensibly.
I used pre drawn frames too. Some that were drawn in 11 frame supers and some drawn in 9 frame supers
 #8642  by NigelP
 28 Aug 2020, 09:04
Chris do you know if those 8 frame fit inside the Abelo supers? I know the 9 and 10 spaced won't and need cutting before nailing. In fact the 10 become 9 and the 9 become 8... Not perfect but work.

No need to answer Chris, just seen measurements and they will fit an Abelo super.
Length of WBC 8 slot is 383mm
Abelo Super is 398mm whereas wooden National super is 424mm
 #8643  by AdamD
 28 Aug 2020, 10:02
I use the 9 slot national castellations and cut them down with tin snips for either WBC's (8 frames) or national boxes.
Or I get six frames in my 8 frame National boxes (!)

The Paynes poly supers have a slot in them that take either their runners or castellations - which is very sensible. However levering out a propolised frame would sometimes result in a chunk of poly coming out attached to the top bar which is not quite so good - so my Paynes hive was sold. I have one Paradise brood box and super and these will not take castellations, so the box is just used as an overwintering box with the super as a place for a feeder.

Can castellations be fitted to an Abelo box?
 #8649  by NigelP
 28 Aug 2020, 12:58
Yes, like the wooden hives you nail them on, but the interior length is slightly shorter in the Abelo supers than wooden supers and so you need to snip a bit off (and before the clarity critics start...... you snip a bit off the castellation not the Abelo super).....But not if you buy castellations sized for a WBC as these will fit directly into an Abelo super......as I have just discovered this morning.
I'm not a big fan of them as they are real glove tearers, but doing a lot of migratory beekeeping they help stop the super frames moving or rocking around on the very rough 4WD tracks I use and potentially crushing bees or damaging pristine cut comb frames.
 #8651  by Chrisbarlow
 28 Aug 2020, 13:26
NigelP wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 09:04
Chris do you know if those 8 frame fit inside the Abelo supers? I know the 9 and 10 spaced won't and need cutting before nailing. In fact the 10 become 9 and the 9 become 8... Not perfect but work.

No need to answer Chris, just seen measurements and they will fit an Abelo super.
Length of WBC 8 slot is 383mm
Abelo Super is 398mm whereas wooden National super is 424mm
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