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  • Questions on Feeding

  • Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
 #8650  by DaveG
 28 Aug 2020, 13:10
Hi,

I have my first colony (created in late July from a nuc) and am based in the Peak District. There are still empty frames in the brood box, so I have not added any super frames. The bees seem happy.

On 8th Aug, I added a rapid feeder with 1kg sugar and 630mls water (situated in a empty super). The bees have not touched the feeder (yes it's over a hole in the crown board). They have been bringing in pollen.

My questions:
Does the sugar solution go off?
What is the difference between adding sugar solution and fondant icing?
Should I worry that the bees are not eating the sugar solution or will they when pollen / nectar stops?

Many thanks
Dave (very much so a beginner)
 #8653  by Chrisbarlow
 28 Aug 2020, 13:35
Single strength syrupcan certainly go off.. it ferments or goes mouldy. I would certainly change the syrup now.

You need 50lb of stores in the colany imo before the end of September

Syrup is used from may till September in most of the British isles as the bees can evaporate the water out

Fondant is used in winter when it's very cold

If they're not taking syrup and not expanding then that sends alarm signals to me,
 #8655  by AndrewLD
 28 Aug 2020, 14:42
What Chris said although 50lbs sounds a bit high for the colony you describe.

However, did you remember to drizzle a little syrup down so that they follow the trail and find the feed?
 #8660  by Chrisbarlow
 28 Aug 2020, 17:25
AndrewLD wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 14:42
What Chris said although 50lbs sounds a bit high for the colony you describe.
fair point, I think your right on reflection

If you go for 50lb, add a super under the brood box
 #8665  by NigelP
 28 Aug 2020, 19:18
DaveG wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 13:10

My questions:
Does the sugar solution go off?
Yes it will attract mould and bacteria. A good way to prevent it going off is to add some Thymol to it.
Buy Thymol crystals from a beekeeping supplier. Make a 1000x concentrated solution by dissolving 20g of Thymol crystals in 50 ml of Isopropyl alcohol (or equivalent).
Add 1 ml to each litre of sugar....it will not go off indefinitely.
As Andrew says, it's often a good idea to dribble some sugar solution over the feeder cone into the bees for them to find the reservoir. However, this doesn't always work,.....you get an occasional hive on a death wish that refuses to take it down. Rare but it does happen.
 #8666  by RJC
 28 Aug 2020, 19:52
I use 1l of water (thereabouts) to 2 kg of sugar - they take that down readily. i wonder of yours is too weak?
Last edited by RJC on 28 Aug 2020, 20:41, edited 1 time in total.
 #8668  by Steve 1972
 28 Aug 2020, 20:07
Instead of worrying about measurements for 2:1 do as follows..

Get a cup or a skip and fill it to the required level with dry sugar..mark the level of the sugar and then fill with water to the mark you have made for the dry sugar.. ;)
 #8669  by Patrick
 28 Aug 2020, 23:57
Hi DaveG and welcome to the Forum.

Is this the first feed batch you have put on and if you look at the already drawn out combs do they have syrup in them? In other words do they actually know its there? How many frames of foundation and how many drawn with comb are we talking about. You don't need to thing about supers at this point. Have you treated for varroa with anything - I have noticed with Apiguard in the past it can put bees off taking down the feed. Do you have brood being raised and definitely know there is a queen present? If they become queenless they can stop bringing down feed but a nuc that new should be fine. When you say a rapid feeder are we talking about the round tub with a cone in the middle type?

I hesitate to advise on the Peak District being so far North of me, but a reluctance to to take down feed shouldn't yet a problem but could become one if the problem persists in a few weeks time. There does come a time when temperatures cool and bees may be reluctant to use these types of feeder. I would do as Andrew suggests and keep drizzling a bit down the center hole (don't drown them ;) ) and trust they get the message.

Whilst you are waiting for them, put in a few calls to your local bakers and find out who would sell you a 12.5kg block of bakers fondant. If you really can't get them to take down syrup then a block of fondant halved over queen excluder and encased in an empty super under the roof will do the same job but is not so time or temperature critical. You would in that event know you gave them every chance.
 #8670  by AdamD
 29 Aug 2020, 12:14
Thin syrup can ferment if it's been on the hive for a while; you do need to clean the feeder well before re-using it or the yeasts will remain and the syrup will ferment again. Sometimes, even if you spodge some honey from the hive in the feeder to get the bees up, they will still take down the honey and more or less ignore the syrup. Ensure that you can see down the hole to the frames below, of course - the feeder may have come dislodged. (Yes it happens). And as has been mentioned, if you have, say, Apiguard near the feed-hole, the bees will most likely stay away.
 #8674  by NigelP
 29 Aug 2020, 14:37
RJC wrote:
28 Aug 2020, 19:52
I use 1l of water (thereabouts) to 2 kg of sugar - they take that down readily. i wonder of yours is too weak?
That is a little close to the maximum amount of sugar you can dissolve in water and will tend to crystallise in cold spells. The maximum in cold water is 2.11 kg of sugar in 1 litre.
The beekeeping strong syrup 2:1 formula was based on imperial measurements of 2lbs of sugar to 1 pint of water....which in modern parlance equates to 2kg of sugar dissolved in 1,25 liters of water. Not a large difference but enough that this will not crystallise in cold weather and is approx 62.5% sugar solution.
Adding some thymol to it will keep it pristine for years