BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • It's never too early to start hefting..

  • Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
 #1044  by Patrick
 11 Oct 2018, 23:15
A huge advantage of a Forum such as this is people telling you what they are finding out in with their bees in real time. Right here, right now, as that noted beekeeper Fat Boy Slim points out.

A post from thewoodgatherer recently mentioned that after autumn feeding his colonies had actually started to to get noticeably lighter again, which would normally be expected much later and nearer to next Spring. Some other beekeepers have reported exactly the opposite, with a big flow off Ivy or Balsam. Either way, the bees are not hunkering down by the looks of it.

I don't get much Ivy flow (which is a bit of a mystery, tbh) and so with thewoodgatherer's experience at the back of my mind, I briefly hefted my colonies yesterday. And found most are already significantly lighter that they should be at this time of the year , i.e. they do not feel to a casual one handed attempted tip up from the stand, to feel like they are nailed to it. Most irritating. You might usefully think to check as well, particularly if expecting to follow the advice of most older books that after feeding well in September, you can confidently take up learning the tuba until April next.

I know if i mix up more syrup now it will immediately signal historic low temperatures and I will end up with feeders of unused syrup to deal with and still insufficient stores to last the winter, so my next move will probably be to either put on a good wodge of fondant now or be prepared to do so later.

I probably favour now on balance. My thanks to thewoodgatherer for making me think to check.
 #1047  by Jim Norfolk
 12 Oct 2018, 10:57
Patrick while I am sure hefting is a skill born of many years practice, lifting one side of a National at this time of year is in the order of 15 to 20 kg. On the other hand a 10 kg heft would suggest feeding is getting urgent. While I could easily decide one hive is heavier than another, I doubt I could estimate the actual weight of a hive with great accuracy just by hefting. I find it safer to use a spring balance to get a number. It is then possible to discern a trend in hive weight.
 #1049  by Patrick
 12 Oct 2018, 13:27
Hi Jim

I don't doubt you are right and also that you have the many years required.

I must confess I have never got round to accurate weighing partly because

- my only scales are used for fishing and tragically I am unlikely to ever catch something up to 25kg

- I probably have too many colonies and my record keeping is singularly inept

- my hefting classifications are usually not much better than 1) Strewth, that's heavy! 2) Hmmm, not as heavy as I thought it would still be by now, surely? 3) Hold on, are there still bees left in this?

I am now feeling a bit of science could no doubt be usefully be deployed, time for some eyed hooks and a more ambitious set of scales maybe. However the basic point is that for mid October I seem to have a some colonies approaching the 2 bracket that should still in be in the 1 bracket, which is rather unexpected but there has been no shortage of flying activity recently.
 #1053  by NigelP
 12 Oct 2018, 22:28
Hefting comes with experience and the only way to get that experience is to heft!
Make note that poly hives weigh far less than wooden hives and adjust accordingly...as in poly "emmm not as heavy as I thought " means plenty of store. Too heavy to lift means removal of full frames next spring.
Its not an exact science but works well enough. I don't have time for luggage scales and hooks...far too time consuming.
The time to be worried is when they are light...
 #1099  by Chrisbarlow
 15 Oct 2018, 22:12
Patrick wrote:
12 Oct 2018, 13:27
- my hefting classifications are usually not much better than 1) Strewth, that's heavy! 2) Hmmm, not as heavy as I thought it would still be by now, surely? 3) Hold on, are there still bees left in this?
thats my scales to! :D

I agree about some boxes lighter than expected. I have been doing some hefting and some dont seem as heavy as I thought they were a few weeks ago. I will be keeping a keen eye on them.
 #1100  by Patrick
 15 Oct 2018, 22:52
Aha, interesting you have found the same.

As Jim points out hefting does help with experience but if you are just starting out and fancy trying you can calibrate your muscle memory by "hefting" an empty hive, then put a few house bricks (generally 2-3kg each depending on their design) or similar on the roof and then try again. You don't need to clean and jerk it into the air, lift just one side with a single hand enough to leave the stand a few mm. Gives you an idea of what say an extra 10kg would feel like. And so on. Not an exact science by any means. The eyed hooks into the floor and a set of luggage scales route could make an interesting winter project to compare.

Typically, mine sit pretty heavy into late winter then early spring progressively lighten up, but it can depend on the winter weather and where you are. A quick heft takes no time to walk thru the apiary and can give early warning of a possible issue - not always about just being too light either, one staying much heavier than others is worth wondering why and keeping a look at the entrance on sunny day as to whether much is going on. That could be for a few reasons but that perhaps for another day.

Good point about the poly hive, makes sense. I really must give one a go. More kit.
 #1424  by tidymeup
 25 Nov 2018, 20:52
I heft mine on occasion but their are 120 or more at any one time to do, after a few they all start to feel heavy.

I just work on the theory if i have to go BLOODY HELL THAT'S HEAVY they are good.

Polys and wood alike, anything less will get fondant around Feb.

If I nearly tip it off the stand then they get fondant now.
 #1706  by Patrick
 17 Jan 2019, 14:39
Went for a walk round the bees lunchtime. Gave a quick heft and several are certainly lightening up. There were no shortage of bees when opening to treat three weeks ago and I suspect with the mild Autumn down here they have been raising brood continuously, hence using up stores. I have put a slab of fondant on one hive already.

Nigel made the point about Polyhives previously being lighter and so, stating the obvious maybe, but wood double brood or brood and a half configurations will correspondingly also weigh heavier simply in terms of combs and wood, don't be deceived.

If in doubt, put some fondant on. If they don't use it no problem, at the end of winter simply wodge any unused pieces into freezer ziplock bags and it will keep until next year no issue. If it has dried out into unhelpful lumps you can pop the whole bag into a microwave for a minute and it will all soften up and you can press it back into a more helpful slab shape.

Better they can find it and use it whilst warm enough than wait until they are immobile and isolated in a cold snap.

Personally I suspect we are in for another cold spell in March. We shall see..
 #1709  by Chrisbarlow
 17 Jan 2019, 20:54
dont forget to add some pollen subs as well. I agree about them still brood rearing due to the warmer weather. If this i the case they will haved used more protein stores than normal and a new bees that have not been fed enough protein will be a short lived bee.