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General Chat about Gardens & Flowers
 #8436  by Steve 1972
 10 Aug 2020, 12:50
I have just been to my local Farmfoods shop today and it is currently 50p per Kg which is lower than last year..i know its a tad early to be buying sugar but if this lockdown happens again a few folk might be caught out which could be bad news for winter feeding preparations ..
 #8442  by AndrewLD
 10 Aug 2020, 17:46
My sugar stores were looking decidedly useful early this year....
Inverted syrup at just a bit over £1 a kg when bought in bulk.
What price the faff of making syrup when you can give the girls something where the job is already half done?
 #8444  by Steve 1972
 10 Aug 2020, 18:27
I find it really easy to make Andrew and at 50p per kilo i am saving quite a lot of money (half the price)..i have this 100L water butt with a tap included as in the picture..i can easily get 60 Kg of sugar in there to make 2:1 syrup ..the Grundfos industrial sump pump mixes the sugar and water while i do other bits and bobs...when it is mixed i use the tap on the barrel to fill my 5L water bottles which have Thymol added to help with mould and apparently Nosema..if i use hot water i can get it done twice as quick but cold is fine with that kind of sump pump.. ;)

Image
Last edited by Steve 1972 on 11 Aug 2020, 07:14, edited 1 time in total.
 #8445  by NigelP
 10 Aug 2020, 19:03
I use a system similar to Steve's, can mix 100kg sugar to 2:1 in no time.
I find the price of invert exorbitant in comparison. I think it's the reason it's usually sold by the litre as it disguises it's high price. Last time I worked it out it was approx 4x more expensive, even if bought in bulk.
Am yet to be convinced invert is any better than sugar syrups as bees will add enzymes to any liquid sugar/nectar source they pick up. They can't help themselves.
Lots of salesmanship gone into selling invert.
 #8447  by Chrisbarlow
 10 Aug 2020, 23:10
Costco - 25kg for £10.50

I use similar system to Steve. Works Fab.
 #8448  by Patrick
 11 Aug 2020, 01:39
I am liking the sump pump and water butt vibe. I had picked up on previous references but been too thick to put two and two together,

I do like pressing into service stuff I already have or can use for other things where I can. I often can’t justify accommodating dedicated kit I only use occasionally. It partly depends on the scale you operate at as well. I mix it up in beer fermenting barrels using a plaster paddle on a drill. Easy and quick but not as fast as the sump pump by the sound of it.

Never tried the invert sugar but know many who do. If it works for them, that’s great.

However even for single hive owners, I think the advice to be boiling up saucepans or stockpots of syrup is unnecessary and potentially dangerous. There is no need to have to heat the water that much to dissolve the sugar and a spill of hot syrup could be very unpleasant. Tap hot water is quite warm enough and if you can warm up the sugar bags in a very low oven first they dissolve even quicker. A bucket and improvised stirrer and you are away.
 #8449  by Chrisbarlow
 11 Aug 2020, 07:49
@Patrick

I find the pump and barrel brilliant. I don't think it's quicker but it's less labour intensive and I can do larger batches. I am very glad I made the change from 5gallon buckets and a drill/paddle setup.

I also have to be careful not to over do the pump with sugar or it stops.every batch I've done so far has acheived this at some point.

I've only started doing it this summer after reading initially Nigel's post and then doing some further reading, so am relatively new in it's operation, I think there is a knack but I'm so glad ive made the change.
 #8450  by AndrewLD
 11 Aug 2020, 08:13
You almost had me there - I was just heading out to retrieve my sump pump and eyeing up the water butt when I thought - what am I doing? I only have 6 colonies going into winter....

Price range of prepared feeds is considerable - 12.5kg E H Thorne is £36.50 (delivered), Paynes £26.00 (I think that is carriage paid) and our association £13.50 collect locally. So for me it's not worth the faff but if you are making 60-100 kg batches then obviously cost becomes a big factor.

There's a very interesting research paper that goes into the differences between feeding sugar syrup, inverted syrup and starch syrups etc (Apikel is one of the syrups tested) and it also looked into the timing of feeding.

Bottom line (with sincere apologies to the researchers who did a lot of work on a big scale to find this) - doesn't make any difference to the bee outcome which you feed but there can be implications if stored too long or in too high a temperature.
You can read it for yourselves here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/311624954_Suitability_of_Starch_Syrups_for_Winter_Feeding_of_Honeybee_Colonies
 #8452  by Chrisbarlow
 11 Aug 2020, 10:01
Cheers Andrew. I'll read that later
 #8453  by NigelP
 11 Aug 2020, 10:51
Chrisbarlow wrote:
11 Aug 2020, 07:49
tup.

I also have to be careful not to over do the pump with sugar or it stops.every batch I've done so far has acheived this at some point.
I usually add about half of the sugar and go back a bit later and add other half.
I added a Y connector into mine with a tap at one end so I can pump the syrup out once it's dissolved.