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  • A swarmy year or not

  • REPORT A SWARM FOR LOCAL BEEKEEPERS.
REPORT A SWARM FOR LOCAL BEEKEEPERS.
 #6260  by Patrick
 08 Apr 2020, 15:15
Impressed Jazz, tbh some of those descriptions lost me after a while -and i thought I knew what they were describing! :roll:
 #6261  by Japey Edge
 08 Apr 2020, 15:27
Patrick wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 15:15
Impressed Jazz, tbh some of those descriptions lost me after a while -and i thought I knew what they were describing! :roll:
Pah I couldn't tell you what any of them are without looking at the pictures. I need to commit them to memory.
 #6262  by NigelP
 08 Apr 2020, 15:31
Find out which method works with the bees you keep. I found Pagden never worked for me yet some swear by.....I swore at it.
Demaree and Snelgrove method 1 are swarm prevention, you implement them before there are any queen cells seen, they are preactive..
A proper Demaree is very labour intensive as if done correctly you are constantly moving brood frames from bottom to top box and vice versa.....there are a multitude of variations implemented by beekeepers.

Snelgrove method 2 is swarm control (as is Pagden) both are started when you have charged queen cells.
I carry about 4 or 5 Snelgrove boards with me to all out apiaries as this is one of my prefered methods and the boards have a variety of instant uses, like temp roofs/floors, covers for open boxes ....oh and you can use them for swarm control.
One method I like quite a lot is the rarely mentioned Nuc method.
Essnetially put old queen some frames of stores one frame of sealed brood into nuc and move.
This then gives you several options with the original brood box, you can leave them as is, But many would knock queen cells down to 1 or 2. Add frame with eggs from favourite hive etc etc.

It can be very confusing particularly as every wanna bee a name in beekeeping has their own particular methods and variations. But essentially they are all based on either Demaree, Pagden, or Snelgrove's original methods.

Oh well worth noting that most of the thoughts and rationale about swarms control methods are taught wrongly. They simply try to divide the bees in foragers (older flying bees), nurse bees and queen bees.
A typical swamr takes about 75% of the hives current population of 2 day to 14 day "nurse " bees with them. So non of the methods taught achieve anything like the constitution of a real swarm.#
BBKA article doesn't seem to realise there are 2 Snelgrove methods 1 for prevention and 1 for control.

Another "Where did all my honey go" Where the author states a prime swamr will leave the colony with dwindling numbers of foragers....It's really the opposite it really leaves them with a dwindling number of nurse bees..Most of the foragers will be out foraging. Although as a swarm can reduce bee numbers by 50-60% there will be a general overall weakening. But I do wish people would try to understand what they are writing about rather than regurgitation of the same old errors.
 #6265  by Steve 1972
 08 Apr 2020, 16:37
Jazz...Nigel has the Snelgrove method nailed I'm sure he will be along and explain it for you..the demaree is also a good method but that method is to be used before the bees even think about swarming...I'm not keen on it though..even though I can lift full brood boxes chest height it does not appeal to me

Edit to add Nigel already onto it..lol
 #6270  by Patrick
 08 Apr 2020, 17:36
Also a fan of Snelgrove 2 and split boards which allow vertical division and only need an extra spare box and combs. Haven’t got enough spare floors / roofs / stands / inclination to go in for division into two seperate colonies as usually pictured. Also in a bad swarmy season apiary would become a blooming nightmare doubled up..

Go vertical and save a fortune! :D
 #6271  by Chrisbarlow
 08 Apr 2020, 17:50
Go vertical and save a fortune! :D

Absolutely
 #6352  by MickBBKA
 12 Apr 2020, 02:42
[/quote]
Is Pagden not the way forward then?
Latest issue of BBKA magazine lists Demaree, Pagden, Heddon and Snelgrove - just having a read through to see which is my fave :lol:
[/quote]

Ha, I was going to break cover and call that out but thought I may get shot down so kept quiet. Some of the advice from a Master beekeeper I find quite ridiculous, I have experimented very successfully with some of the techniques that he states won't work in a certain way with great success. I find his understanding of bees rearing brood and bees making wax quite perplexing for a Master Beekeeper. 10 & 14 day inspections...…..LOL...…..Kicked my arse for the first 3 years I kept bees as I had no idea why I was losing queens and bees. It is a huge failing IMHO that we are taught to believe in certain examples without being encouraged to explore and question ( a bit like the current situation ) This leads to a blind acceptance that only one certain way is the way forward. As Nigel commented in another post there is a huge amount of information available from past years were beekeepers were more observant of their bees behaviour. I am a huge believer in looking at the bees first before I look into the bees.

Anyway, Demaree, but not the way described in the BBKA mag. ;)

Cheers, Mick.
 #6360  by Chrisbarlow
 12 Apr 2020, 08:30
I always found pagden quite demanding to implement, the bees never understood what they were supposed to be doing.

Verical manipulations are far superior
 #6384  by Chrisbarlow
 13 Apr 2020, 01:13
a good article from the apiarist about bait hives.
https://theapiarist.org/time-to-deploy/
 #6415  by MickBBKA
 14 Apr 2020, 03:14
Chrisbarlow wrote:
12 Apr 2020, 08:30
I always found pagden quite demanding to implement, the bees never understood what they were supposed to be doing.
Verical manipulations are far superior
Pagden works very well IMHO, but depends how you do it. I go for a full on approach. Queen, flying bees, foundation, no comb, no brood, small amount of stores, big feeder. Never failed yet.

I do like vertical splits though..