Anyone bought / read this booklet yet ? What did you think of it? Contains quite a few of my photos and four of my articles so am naturally curious about how it has been received.
British Beekeepers Association Official Forum
BBKA news special edition Queen rearing
- General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
Sadly not Gerry. Your photos get every where
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sent me a free copy and I'll happily review it.
After the BBKA failed a very competent bee keeper (he uses II and is involved in pan-European Carnica VSH improvement scheme) from their new breeding exam simply because he kept Carniolans and not local mongrels...I'm not very happy with the direction they seem to be heading,
I think it's safe to say It's not something on my "must buy" list.
It did seem a bit odd that the "very competent" beekeeper was failed in that first guinnea-pig year and I passed 
However I think there was some misunderstanding of the reason for the breeding exam and it seems that the thrust of the exam is to encourage "local" beekeepers which isn't the case if one is bringing in 'material' from Europe. It's often the case that the BBKA doesn't quite get the message out clearly ! In reality that "competent beekeeper" has capabilities way beyond what is expected of the BBKA breeding exam.
However I think there was some misunderstanding of the reason for the breeding exam and it seems that the thrust of the exam is to encourage "local" beekeepers which isn't the case if one is bringing in 'material' from Europe. It's often the case that the BBKA doesn't quite get the message out clearly ! In reality that "competent beekeeper" has capabilities way beyond what is expected of the BBKA breeding exam.May your bees read the same books as you do.
Yes it simply implies if you don't breed local mongrel bees you fail no matter how competent a bee breeder you are.
Which makes it an exam with dangerous overtones if a beekeeping organisation is restricting the material you can breed from to solely "local" origin in order to pass their exam.....[Puts hard hat on}
The big problem with breeding mongrel bees (as any competent geneticist can tell you) is they simply do not breed true. There is far too much variability in their offspring. With no control over other beekeepers drones etc you may as well toss a coin most of the time. Some may be lucky but generally all we do is select for the less aggressive crosses. There is no scoring system for other traits as any proper breeding system needs to incorporate .
I can think of far better strategies to improve local stock , but they would involve all beekeepers in one area agreeing with one another
Which makes it an exam with dangerous overtones if a beekeeping organisation is restricting the material you can breed from to solely "local" origin in order to pass their exam.....[Puts hard hat on}
The big problem with breeding mongrel bees (as any competent geneticist can tell you) is they simply do not breed true. There is far too much variability in their offspring. With no control over other beekeepers drones etc you may as well toss a coin most of the time. Some may be lucky but generally all we do is select for the less aggressive crosses. There is no scoring system for other traits as any proper breeding system needs to incorporate .
I can think of far better strategies to improve local stock , but they would involve all beekeepers in one area agreeing with one another
I bought a copy and have read it once. These are my initial impressions:
Pros
Nicely printed, glossy paper, lots of diagrams/photos.
Excellent photos
Fairly comprehensive coverage of methods.
Lots of information.
Cons
two columns of text per page interspaced with photos, means lots of lines to read.
Small print (very)
Different writing styles cause me confusion: no two articles are presented in the same manner
NO list of Pros and Cons of each method.
No list of potential difficulties with each and author's remedies..
Comparison of different types of QR is near end of book: if aimed at newcomers it should be near front in order to guide reader to relevant sections.
Very verbose in parts where a bullet point summary would be a useful reminder of what to do and when.
How Grafting can be discussed without head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me.. And Nicot Cupkit suggests using sugar water/honey to spray the box before use..My experience is vital to do so.. And the problems sometimes encountered by beekeepers (well documented on other forums) are not mentioned.
Written by experts without any apparent idea of possible readers' capability..(dexterity, eyesight).
And no real comment on weather, timing to suit beekeeper's own schedule and ability.
Written by experts for experts is my conclusion. I will not use it as a reference book. Very disappointing.
I use Cloake Board and Cupkit for there years with variable success.
Pros
Nicely printed, glossy paper, lots of diagrams/photos.
Excellent photos
Fairly comprehensive coverage of methods.
Lots of information.
Cons
two columns of text per page interspaced with photos, means lots of lines to read.
Small print (very)
Different writing styles cause me confusion: no two articles are presented in the same manner
NO list of Pros and Cons of each method.
No list of potential difficulties with each and author's remedies..
Comparison of different types of QR is near end of book: if aimed at newcomers it should be near front in order to guide reader to relevant sections.
Very verbose in parts where a bullet point summary would be a useful reminder of what to do and when.
How Grafting can be discussed without head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me.. And Nicot Cupkit suggests using sugar water/honey to spray the box before use..My experience is vital to do so.. And the problems sometimes encountered by beekeepers (well documented on other forums) are not mentioned.
Written by experts without any apparent idea of possible readers' capability..(dexterity, eyesight).
And no real comment on weather, timing to suit beekeeper's own schedule and ability.
Written by experts for experts is my conclusion. I will not use it as a reference book. Very disappointing.
I use Cloake Board and Cupkit for there years with variable success.
Valid points Nigel,NigelP wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 17:03
The big problem with breeding mongrel bees (as any competent geneticist can tell you) is they simply do not breed true. There is far too much variability in their offspring. With no control over other beekeepers drones etc you may as well toss a coin most of the time.
I can think of far better strategies to improve local stock , but they would involve all beekeepers in one area agreeing with one another
Yes of course there will be more variability in my bees compared to "professional" breeders. However improvements CAN be made and I guess that's what the BBKA are trying to achieve. (I don't speak for them and my guess is also that there may also be an underlying interest in black bees).
The area I have is, I suspect, fairly benign as far as a breeding area is concerned and I have a reasonable number of colonies so there is a better chance of my bees being involved in the mating mix. A few of my queens are also with other local beekeepers so that helps too. And I don't need to worry about inbreeding as there will always be other bees around that are not mine! I am not involved in a beekeeping group, however I agree that it would help improve consistency if I could get a few local beekeepers to work with me. But, get two beekeepers and the result is three opinions .....
May your bees read the same books as you do.
Errata in my post above:
"How Grafting can be discussed without head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me"
should read :
"How Grafting can be discussed in a few brief words head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me when over 70% of the population need spectacles to see.
"How Grafting can be discussed without head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me"
should read :
"How Grafting can be discussed in a few brief words head mounted LED lamps/magnification to assist beats me when over 70% of the population need spectacles to see.
It's something that is not taken into account by many beekeepers. The variability of the local bees temperaments over small distances. I find this fascinating.AdamD wrote: ↑08 May 2019, 18:43
The area I have is, I suspect, fairly benign as far as a breeding area is concerned and I have a reasonable number of colonies so there is a better chance of my bees being involved in the mating mix. A few of my queens are also with other local beekeepers so that helps too. And I don't need to worry about inbreeding as there will always be other bees around that are not mine! I am not involved in a beekeeping group, however I agree that it would help improve consistency if I could get a few local beekeepers to work with me. But, get two beekeepers and the result is three opinions .....
I've probably said it before and will say it again but in my area generally not good at all, yet 25 miles away in Teesside (as I'm sure MIck will confirm) mainly like lambs.....
I tried for over 5 years to generate "better bees". The advice of not breeding from swarmy bees was impossible to follow as every hive swarmed every year regardless of the room they had etc.
I see this in the bees I breed from Isolated station mated queens. The F1 are great and rarely swarm in their 1st or 2nd full seasons (exceptions of course). The F2's (now 75% local genes) revert to annual swarming....and many (not all) pick up the local temperament.
I suspect if the bees had been of a different characteristic in my area I would never have followed the route I did.
Anyone living in an area with gentle local bees should consider themselves very fortunate.
I know from talking to several of the local bee inspectors they always dreaded inspections around my area (and others).