Snelgrove issue

[Alfred]

I will be using snelgrove boards this year as I can't afford any increases but reading up on the process, the problem I can foresee is leaving a frame of only sealed brood in the lower box
None of my lot would ever be considerate enough to provide me with that, least of all at short notice.
It would almost certainly be bias.
So is there wriggle room?

[NigelP]

Nope.
You will need to check that frame very carefully as they will attempt queen cells on it, even from older larvae....so simply expect that you will need to check this one frame (and the others you will have missed that had eggs in that you didn't notice .
They will tear down all the queen cells in the queenright upper box.
However, if you wish to breed new queen ...now is an ideal time to introduce a frame or disc or triangle of eggs from your chosen breeder into the lower box.
IF this is the case, then this is the only time I would start opening and closing entry's in the Snelgrove as he described to get the foragers all working bottom box and supers....be warned they can get high.....

In the original snelgrove he removes queen back to bottom box after 3 days and then puts up with loads of new queen cells in upper box....The variation I use leaves queen in upper box for at least 2 weeks until the scout bees (that are causing the swarming ) mature to foragers....
Then...if you still want old queen simply unite....no newspaper needed.

[Alfred]

So it's just a case of having to put eggs in the lower box but policing it hard?
Why don't these authors mention that?

[NigelP]

So it's just a case of having to put eggs in the lower box but policing it hard?
Why don't these authors mention that?

Well, Snelgrove took queen down to lower box after 3 days, which took care of any queen cells "downstairs"....but he does talk about problem of new queen cells upstairs.

[Alfred]

https://www.killowen.com/swarmcontrol2.html


This is where I've been looking-perhaps they've over simplified it

[MickBBKA]

All way too complicated. I have no idea why folk do this.

[JoJo36]

Nigel/Alfred
Would the foragers not stay in the bottom box if they were given a frame of food and pollen without any eggs/sealed brood?! I agree its difficult to check properly that you don't have any eggs and then having to remove the top brood box and snelgrove board on bottom box to check and destroy any queen cells??!! I've also checked the top box to make sure they've destroyed all top box queen cells and sometimes they've left a few??!!
You wouldn't get a new queen but sometimes that suits the beekeeper?! I suppose the eggs/brood encourage the bees to stay in the bottom box?!
The snelgrove 2 method just requires the spare brood box so saves having a spare nuc box.

[NigelP]

All way too complicated. I have no idea why folk do this.

Much simpler and more effective than than Demaree or variants thereof. Ignore all the opening and closing of gates, that is for the more advanced beekeepers to use if they should require it. Essentially look at it as a split hive with a board and mesh.

[NigelP]

Nigel/Alfred
Would the foragers not stay in the bottom box if they were given a frame of food and pollen without any eggs/sealed brood?! I agree its difficult to check properly that you don't have any eggs and then having to remove the top brood box and snelgrove board on bottom box to check and destroy any queen cells??!! I've also checked the top box to make sure they've destroyed all top box queen cells and sometimes they've left a few??!!

Nothing is 100% in beekeeping but usually they destroy them all.
Brood frame in bottom box....you could possibly do without but as mine are usually on double brood I end up with a few frames of brood in excess to what will fit in one box. If you don't want the hassle of removing high boxes to check bottom, set the top part to one side of the box. This will require more space and reuniting will possibly not be as easy as removing a board and bunging the 2 brood boxes together.

I know a lot of people advocate Demarree for swarm control, but this is classically a method for swarm prevention, not swarm control, and should be done before any queen cells appear. My issue with Demaree is the type of bees I keep always fill the top brood box with honey, essentially rendering the method ineffective for any method of swarm control. That is why I like a physical barrier between boxes and why I use classic Snelgrove boards as they give you so many elegant options for proceeding depending on what you want to achieve....i.e retain old queen or requeen if you desire. However any board with an entrance will do at a pinch e.g. Horsley board which only has one entrance is another goof alternative.
Just don't move old queen down to bottom box as in classic snelgrove....leave in top box for at least 2 weeks until the scout bees swarm fever has left them.

[JoJo36]

I suppose by moving a frame of sealed brood or eggs if you want another queen is useful as if the queen in top box is on her way out, you're left with hopefully a brand new eventually mated queen with no disruption to the honey collection as the foragers return still filling up the super above? Except mine on brood and a half!! Hmmm, I'll see how they do and maybe join to make a double brood and try the two on brood and a half! Single brood with supers is much easier but not enough room for a good laying queen?! Maybe should have gone for commercial boxes for brood??!!............