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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #12716  by Liam
 27 May 2022, 14:03
First year I have had this method fail (original method as described in the book)

Failed on 3 hives total of which I re-snelgroved them all and reset. All done exact, done many times and always has worked.

One colony was successful on the second attempt, one colony killed the queen when putting her back in the bottom box (never seen that before as they had the same scent) one failed for a second time as I found a few charged QCS below after returning the queen.

Anyone else having some issues with swarm manipulations this year? I'm wondering if spring was just to good here. Share your experience if you have also had this method fail and maybe reasons.
 #12718  by NigelP
 27 May 2022, 15:38
Not failures exactly Liam but strange goings on this season. I've done 6 so far and in all cases queen cells have been torn down in the top box (as per norm al), but in 3 the queens have totally disappeared from the top boxes after a few days after not laying eggs or anything. Weird.
Also had queens stop laying altogether. Initially thought they they were on a brood break, but no ,three queens simply didn't lay with no obvious defects to any of them observable.

If it's any help I use my own variation of Snelgrove method2 where I leave the queen with nurse bees in top box for 2 weeks before re-uniting. I don't follow the exact Snelgrove 2 of returning her to the bottom box after a few days. I want to give those swarm determining scout bees sufficient time to mature into foragers so all swarming instincts in bottom box are extinguished

On a positive note had my first newly mated queen of 2022 start laying this week. Hopefully with several more to follow shortly.
 #12719  by Liam
 27 May 2022, 16:03
NigelP wrote:
27 May 2022, 15:38

If it's any help I use my own variation of Snelgrove method2 where I leave the queen with nurse bees in top box for 2 weeks before re-uniting. I don't follow the exact Snelgrove 2 of returning her to the bottom box after a few days. I want to give those swarm determining scout bees sufficient time to mature into foragers so all swarming instincts in bottom box are extinguished

On a positive note had my first newly mated queen of 2022 start laying this week. Hopefully with several more to follow shortly.
I did try a 10 day snelgrove on the second attempt but after checking them they also built QCs once the queen was put back in the bottom. I have also had 3 hives that just went queenless for no reason, all three did not accept new mated queens doing the 7 days introduction and 7 days leave them alone method, they were hopelessly queenless :roll: and today I donated them eggs.

When you leave them for your 2 week method I assume you are chnaging the door/gates on the board to filter them bees down yes?, this I have been doing but still failed.

congrats on the mated queen, lets hope she does the job for you!
 #12723  by NigelP
 27 May 2022, 20:11
Liam wrote:
27 May 2022, 16:03
When you leave them for your 2 week method I assume you are changing the door/gates on the board to filter them bees down yes?, this I have been doing but still failed.
That is a depends question Liam. If there is a flow on and the top box is getting congested then yes, sometimes. Ideally don't bother and have top and bottom entrances facing same direction so easier for the "top" bees to relocate to bottom entrance. Although it's not unusual to see bees hitting where their old top entrance was and walking down to their new bottom entrance.

Oh and I usually (not always) give top and bottom boxes a good squirt of air freshener before uniting. This may (or may not) help. Basically if it's in the truck I use it, if it isn't then I don't. Can't say I've notice much difference but number s are too small to form any conclusions.

Also 10 days apart is too soon. I tried various times before uniting last year and anything under 2 weeks just redrew queen cells. Something I attribute (wrongly or rightly) to the scout bees still being in "swarm" mode and not matured into foragers. Alternatively bee density might be such that it resets the swarming instinct. I have had a few drawing queen cells after a 2 week separation, but boy where those huge colonies.A tricky one to answer.
 #12741  by Patrick
 29 May 2022, 17:49
I too use the Snelgrove 2 method, as detailed by Wally Shaw in various online resources and published book.

As mentioned in the "today" thread, I have had several differences noted this year. The colonies have swarmed much more readily once the first cell has been sealed than normal with clipped queens, the swarm cells produced seem to have been more hurriedly constructed, often looking smoother and less well pitted than normal and it seems to be taking an age for emerged virgins to be coming into lay. This last factor may be a result of the flow locally having stopped dead in the last week or more but coupled with absent queens, it is now leaving a worrying gap in the production of young bees in splits which does not promise well for crop from the bramble flow once they are reunited. The weather has been on and off but there have been plenty of drones about so I am just hoping it is only a flow issue. We don't always get a June Gap here but if we are this year then once I have extracted all the supers a short feed may bring them into lay again hopefully.
 #12742  by JoJo36
 29 May 2022, 19:37
I've snelgroved mine and left 10 days (thought it was 2 weeks) but put back on a double brood to see if that makes any difference??!!
If not its back to square one??!!
My swarm put back in hive now have no queen I believe, eggs or larvae so put a single queen cell in it to see what happens?!
It's on a double brood as there were lots of bees??!!
I've had some queen cells with royal jelly but no larvae??!!
 #12743  by MickBBKA
 30 May 2022, 00:35
What you need is Teesside weather. 25 colonies and just 1 has made any queen cells so far even though quite a few are 20+ frames of brood and 5 supers. The so called spring flow is over now and the June gap is 3 weeks early so lets see what happens. It could be down to my selective breeding but I don't think I am that gifted ;) bound to go nuts next week.
 #12746  by JoJo36
 30 May 2022, 04:54
Blimey Mick you've got your hands full with 25 colonies!!
Thats incredible no swarm cells yet??!! It must be your weather, its been pleasant but not hot down south but due some decent weather from Wednesday onwards around 18-19 ish so quite good for queen mating I hope??!!
Fingers & toes crossed!!! :)
 #12751  by JoJo36
 30 May 2022, 18:10
Hi Alfred
5 out of 8 is pretty good in my world and I would be happy with that??!!
Mine are testing my patience and that's not one of my good points??!! :)