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  • Robbing

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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #12553  by Alfred
 04 Apr 2022, 13:43
My strongest colony appearsto have been robbed.
just when the honey pre-order are coming in thick and fast)
The flow is full on and there's residual fondant on all the other hives(all weaker colonies but they have lost interest in it.).
This hive is 200 yards behind the others.
No food left lying around.
Weather cooled off after previous good spell.
There's queen wasps reappearing after winter but not in any numbers.
There's plenty of shredded bees under the hive and a small handful on the landing board.
I cleared them but next day there's more.
I haven't opened it up as there's not much I can do anyway.
I'd rather not disturb or move them if they have a chance of self recovery.
There's certainly less bees visible through the perspex but they have recently had another box put underneath so they may be busy down there.
The entrance is 7mm x 30mm
What struck me is the amount of frass.-it's all over the front, up the four sides and across the roof.
Why would this happen now?
 #12554  by NigelP
 04 Apr 2022, 16:23
Can't really answer your questions Alfred, other than to say this seems quite a common occurrence this spring with many Northern beekeepers reporting colony losses despite adequate food stores and previous varroa treatments.
Not sure what is going on.
Is this wax moth frass you are referring to? If so it may simply indicate that bee numbers are well down allowing wax moth to increase. I'd get inside and see ASAP. If numbers are really low might be an idea to have nuc at hand to rehouse them.
 #12555  by Alfred
 04 Apr 2022, 18:14
No Nigel it's sh1 that is splattered everywhere.
I was really strict with the mites from September to December.
I LL check temps tomorrow and have a look.
The heat coming off the crownbaord is incredible.
I was going to get a couple of new queen's this year - might end up being for those.
It would happen to the honey producers -sods law
 #12557  by SimnFishr
 04 Apr 2022, 21:18
Do you think it could be nosema? In which case I guess a comb change would be a way forward.
 #12558  by MickBBKA
 04 Apr 2022, 21:40
Why do you think robbing ?
Is it possible they have fermented stores in the hive causing dysentry ?
Shredded bees is usually shrews getting in the hive. 7mm is too high, it needs to be 6mm. I had shrew attacks a couple of times. The evidence is the floor covered in bee hard parts and soft bits eaten. Cold nights with clustered slow bees just getting eaten off the cluster. They will devastate a colony because they need to eat constantly. Their skull actually shrinks in winter. They are also protected by law so no trapping :roll:
 #12559  by Alfred
 04 Apr 2022, 22:01
Mick Ihaven't had a look inside yet but there's probably 50 dead bees From Saturday sometime and another 25 or so from Sunday actually under the floor.
There's all the body parts but no whole bees.
The shite is all over and around the outside of the hive like a large number of bees were trying to get in from other directions.
I'll look inside tomorrow
 #12560  by MickBBKA
 05 Apr 2022, 06:44
If the weather is dry for a few nights sprinkle some flour in front of the entrance and you can check for foot prints. ;)
 #12561  by AdamD
 05 Apr 2022, 13:31
Fouling could be nosema - there might be some evidence on the frame top bars.

If robbing is suspected, the comb in which the stores are located will look like it's been hastily ripped open with rough edges around each cell.
For robbing, you can close the entrance one evening and then go back the following morning. If there are bees outside, it's them pesky robbers trying to get in.
 #12563  by Alfred
 05 Apr 2022, 13:53
Funny you should say that Mick because a few of the ratchet straps on the other hives were slacker than I do them.
Our local wild boar and deer don't have thumbs.

I've been up today and had a look.
I'm still none the wiser what happened-but it's not bad news
Three shredded bees under the floor,no more defocation outside.
The floor mesh inside is clean and clear,no damage or signs of rodent.
The new floor and brood boxes are still spotlessly clean,so no dysentery.
The combs are all in good condition with no torn cells.
The upper box is fairly well populated
The lower box has fresh drawn comb and has bias to include todays eggs.
The sealed brood timing means she must have been down in there the same day I put it under.
I think that would explain the sudden drop in numbers visible through the perspex

I can only think the faeces plastering the whole hive and the carpet of dissected bees was an attack that went wrong (Putin take note)
Thanks for your input chaps anyway - always appreciated.
 #12567  by MickBBKA
 05 Apr 2022, 22:50
Great news Alfred.
Its been warmer nights so if it was shrews they won't go in while the bees are active.
Meanwhile I have rats pulling out varroa trays and chewing chunks out of them at one of my out apiaries. Me and my mate are going to watch them try again on Fri night with 2 fully moderated .410's and a thermal night scope .22 :twisted: Pay back time !!