colony wont accept queens

[Liam]

I have a colony that just refuses to accept any queen. The most recent queen I have introduced has been in her cage for 5 days in the hive. I tried to release her on a frame today so I could monitor the reaction and they just balled her up.

This colony is 3 brood boxes, two of which was brood, the third being honey and 2 half full supers.

Originally to re-queen them: I had split them and introduced a queen into the split and reunited after 10 days with the foragers.(after unite she was killed). It took another 12 days for a queen to arrive due to supply at the time. While all this is going on I'm donating frames of brood, eggs. I decided as time was getting on to unite them back with the old queen that was laying well in a nuc, I caged her, and united, she wasnt accepted.

So, I have a queen in a cage in the hive but it doesnt look likely she will be accepted. Every frame of eggs donated they built queen cells on, and I have no laying workers from what I can see.

Im thinking: I move the hive from the stand and replace with a brood box and let all foragers return here (probably 70% of hive by now) Then take what nurse bees are left and unite them with a snelgrove split I did that has no queen in top box yet, then introduce the queen to this colony instead.

What to do with the colony that will not accept a queen? Give them some eggs and just let them get on with it? knock down to one QC and hope?.

[Alfred]

Are you sire the old girl isnt still in there and on a break?
If you're using the plastic cages dont break the seal just make sure shes fed and watered until theres no more balling.
Ive read the fondant supplied isnt enough for the time needed for them ro give up and play nice.
Ive also read of a ten day phenomenon where queens are tolerated until that duration then disposed of.
There was science to it but I didnt absorb any further as my wallet was aching after repeated queen slaughterings.

[Liam]

Are you sire the old girl isnt still in there and on a break?

Yes, the old queen was removed.
test frames always show lots of fresh QC built

If you're using the plastic cages dont break the seal just make sure shes fed and watered until theres no more balling.

Yes, I havent broken the seal, i go back 5 days later and let her out and see what they do.

Shame as the hive is nice and strong, plenty of stores, they just wont accept a queen

I removed attendants today to see if that helps, they were all killed on exit.

[JoJo36]

I bought a new queen last year and following some advice, made a mixture of sugar water 1-1 or weaker and when I placed queen cage in brood box I sprayed all the other bees showing any interest in cage and a few more and they then concentrated on cleaning themselves off and confused them so much they didn't take any notice of the cage!
Probably just luck but it did work as when I checked the cage after a few days she was gone and I found her walking around on comb!

[Steve 1972]

You need to be 100% certain you have no Queen or Virgin Queen in the hive you are playing with..

[MickBBKA]

I am always amazed at this. If they want or need a queen they will accept one. You have something you are missing imho. People are often way to quick to call a colony queenless and try to introduce a new usurper. Make good records and check timings. I had a queen from emergence to laying take a bit over 6 weeks. Its not unusual.

[NigelP]

Some colonies are ultra resistant to being requeened even if it dooms therm. I've stopped trying to requeen full colonies and always introduce queens into nucs made in the same apiary so flying bees return home and nuc is full of nurse bees,.

[AdamD]

This time of year can be the hardest time to re-queen. (And I did had 2 newspaper unites fail in June one year).

Your idea of bleeding off the older bees makes sense. You can put a frame of brood in with the flyers on the old site which will give them something to play with; you could put in a frame from a good colony and let the flyers make a queen from that. You can always squash the queen in a couple of months' time but at least you won't get laying workers; and a hopelessly queenless hive can be no fun if they are not well-behaved in the first place.

For the remains of the colony with the nurse bees, leave for a couple of days to ensure the flyers have gone and then feed - anecdotally, this seems to help acceptance. A contact feeder with half of the holes covered up should be enough. After that, allow the queen to be released (when you are not there) and leave for a week but keep a small but steady level of syrup going in for a few days. Then nervously open up and do the bare minimum to see if she is laying. I would not consider uniting until the queens own daughters are in the hive. You could first put any supers on it from the original colony, then wait a week before doing anything more. I think speed is not of the essence in these situations. Take it slowly.
Might this work?

[Liam]

I am always amazed at this. If they want or need a queen they will accept one. You have something you are missing imho. People are often way to quick to call a colony queenless and try to introduce a new usurper. Make good records and check timings. I had a queen from emergence to laying take a bit over 6 weeks. Its not unusual.

Hi

They 100% are queenless. I removed the queen myself when they built swarm cells. Every bee went through an excluder to double check as I once had a double queen colony. Every frame I donate they build QC on. No doubt they are queenless.

[Liam]

Some colonies are ultra resistant to being requeened even if it dooms therm. I've stopped trying to requeen full colonies and always introduce queens into nucs made in the same apiary so flying bees return home and nuc is full of nurse bees,.

Yes, I read a few post on colony’s rather dying than having queen, crazy. This colony had always been poor and wild.

The nuc idea.. that’s what I did. I had all the nurse bees in one part and re-Queened them, they accepted her and she layed up frames, but was killed when trying to unite all.