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General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #10871  by Steve 1972
 13 May 2021, 18:37
I have nearly got my thick head around it but all my colonies are on single brood boxes..the question is do i have to add a second brood box with a frame of sealed brood on the floor and put the Queen and Queen cells above the supers over the snelgrove board ?..or can i simply just put the single brood box above the supers over the snelgrove board. :roll:
 #10872  by JoJo36
 13 May 2021, 19:16
Hi Steve

I'm sure Nigel will explain perfectly to you but I found this useful on youtube which actually shows you what to do.
I find this better than actually reading something but I can't claim to call myself a successful beekeeper:)
 #10874  by NigelP
 13 May 2021, 19:44
Interesting link they have got it totally the wrong way round! Doh...someone doesn't understand their Snelgrove method 1 (no queen cells, queen in bottom box) vs Snelgrove method 2 (with queen cells appearing queen in top box). Snelgrove method 1 is swarm prevention (before queen cells appear) vs method 2, swarm control (after you have got queen cells).
Why don't people read the book?
In fact what the video shows is a vertical Pagden! No wonder there is so much confusion in beekeeping when people can't even get the basics right.

Steve I add a frame of sealed brood to bottom box (and check later than no queen cells appear on that frame).Might not be necessary but I think it helps the now queenless bottom box to continue as normal. Any supers go above this bottom brood box. Then snelgrove board (or equivalent) and top brood box with queen and queen cells etc)
I don't faff around with all the different entrance orientations, just have both entrances in same direction (but different heights) as helps when you amalgamate later.
As soon as fliers have gone back to bottom box, bees in top box tear down all queen cells.
My variation is to leave queen in top box for a week to 10 days (Snelgrove method 2 takes queen back down to bottom box after 3-4 days).
And unite back...7-10 days later and (so far) all done and back to normal.
 #10875  by Caroline
 13 May 2021, 20:21
Brilliantly explained Nigel :)

'No wonder there is so much confusion in beekeeping when people can't even get the basics right.' I couldn't agree more. ;)
 #10876  by AdamD
 13 May 2021, 20:48
As you point out, it's an artificial swarm - but vertically.
As you are not increasing the number of hives as such, this technique is Very Good when SWIMBO complains about too many hives in the garden!
 #10877  by Steve 1972
 13 May 2021, 21:44
NigelP wrote:
13 May 2021, 19:44
Steve I add a frame of sealed brood to bottom box ..
That is what has me stumped..i have single brood box hives..if i take a frame of brood out of the brood box above it will not fit in the super below obviously.. :D do i have to to add a brood box below with foundation to accommodate a frame of brood from the brood frame above.. :roll:
 #10878  by JoJo36
 14 May 2021, 07:00
Thanks Nigel, sorry Steve!

Just when I thought I had learned something it was wrong:(

So, Nigel, if I find queen cells in my brood box and I have a snelgrove board I should place an empty brood box (undrawn comb) is all I have, on floor on existing spot and take a frame of sealed brood from the original brood box that has queen in it checking for no queen cells??!!
I then place my snelgrove board on top with original brood box over this inc queen, opening one of the side doors so that existing flyers will go in bottom queen less box and the foraging bees above think they have swarmed??!! The box above with queen will tear down any queen cells now??!!
Wouldn't the method on you tube achieve the same result with flying bees separated from the brood??!!
 #10879  by NigelP
 14 May 2021, 08:40
NO! The u-tube version has queen in bottom box and queen cells in top box. You would need to tear down the queen cells yourself. It's the brilliance of Snelgrove method 2 that the bees do this for you.
I was quite sceptical until I tried it...So far 100% and I'm convinced.
Most of my hives are on double brood so for me it's more a question of shuffling frames around and checking bottom box doesn't develop any queen cells.
If you are adding a new brood box underneath you probably will need to make sure there are some stores present as well as a frame of brood. I'm not sure its essential to have a frame of brood in the bottom box. But I do it and often take the opportunity to add a frame of eggs from a decent colony (about a week later) so the newly emerged "nurse" bees can raise a new queen in the bottom box from the genetics I like. This takes longer before uniting (after dispatching old queen) so I then I utilise snelgrove board different entrance directions to divert bees from top box back into bottom box plus supers. It depends what you want to achieve. If straightforward swarm control then it only takes about a week to 10 days before uniting.
Problem is the explanation's all sound very complicated yet the doing and the thoughts behind it are quite simple.
 #10882  by JoJo36
 14 May 2021, 12:15
Thanks Nigel

Sorry to be so thick but I just need to picture it in my head!!!

So, just need a spare brood box to put on original site and take a frame of brood from top box now containing queen and brood.
The flying bees return to the bottom box with just a frame of brood, ( a few days later add a frame of eggs should you want to raise another queen) don't need to if not?!
The queen excluder and snelgrove board goes on top of this new brood box with new entrance on side (or same but above) for re-uniting ease if you want and the bees above in old brood box with queen destroy the cells as they realise they don't need to swarm?!
If you're not raising another queen, re-unite both brood boxes in around 2 weeks?!
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