BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • FAO Nigel.. Snelgrove 2 ..

  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #11427  by JoJo36
 12 Jul 2021, 17:48
Just after I posted I had a thought that these cells could be supercedure so I put queen back in brood box with the 2 sealed cells on face of comb and hoping they won't swarm??!!
If they do, it will be this week as the weather gets much warmer!
I'll just have to look for the signs!!
 #11428  by NigelP
 12 Jul 2021, 17:51
I'm thinking of tweaking my snelgrove boards and replacing the mesh with queen excluder so bees get free access to both parts but queen is stuck in top. Very similar to Mick's "modified method of swarm control.
One of the problems I've come across when brood emerges in top box it can get quite crowded up there and when you start adding supers on them the stacks get ridiculously high.
Room for some experimentation next season.
I think (touch poly hive) all my hives that wanted to swarm this season have now got it out of their system.
 #11429  by JoJo36
 12 Jul 2021, 19:48
Yes sounds a good idea and simple which suits me!
If my hive 1 start bearding and showing swarm signs (not supercedure) I may try this (i've tried everything else):)
The weather has been really weird so far this summer............
 #11431  by JoJo36
 13 Jul 2021, 05:16
Been thinking! about my hive 1 and swarming in general....
What about taking out queen from bottom brood box and placing in new top one with undrawn comb and a frame of brood and frame of food, separated only by the queen excluder so you have bottom brood box developing a new queen and top one keeping old queen from flying off??!!
New queen in bottom box whilst old queen still laying in top one??!!
Obviously this is only if you want a new queen..........hmmm...........
Maybe a thought for next year or this week..............
 #11432  by NigelP
 13 Jul 2021, 07:39
Yup, that would do the trick....
But you are then having to reduce queen cells yourself in the bottom box., which is the beauty of Snelgrove's method 2 where the bees do all the tearing down for you.
 #11433  by Caroline
 13 Jul 2021, 11:15
Back in 2016 I started using a 'frame circulation method'. I have used it prior to swarm cells being built and also once they have been built (cutting out the Q/Cs in this instance). I used it successfully to prevent swarming later in the season. Also to stagger when the colonies put up queen cells, as I prefer to always have at least one colony with a laying queen so eggs are available to sort out issues with other colonies should problems arise.
One queen was kept 3 years using this method.

When laying space is reduced, place a second brood box above queen excluder, maintaining queen in bottom box.

Take 3 or 4 frames of sealed or mostly sealed brood from bottom box into top box, and fill remaining space with foundation (although I have used this method without adding the additional frames and had no issues).

In the bottom brood box replace the removed frames with drawn comb.

Weekly inspections.

When the brood in the top frames has emerged / mostly emerged (so cells are available for laying), rotate to bottom box, moving frames of mostly sealed brood to the top box.

All colonies will eventually swarm, it is what happens naturally. Swarming works on an optimum ratio of worker bees to brood. This method delays, and can prevent altogether depending on timing, that optimum level being met.

Benefits: delay swarming to a later time, or prevent swarming altogether. No increase in colonies. Retention of a favoured queen. Alternative to splits/nuc method of swarm control and then uniting again. No additional apiary space. Similar to double brood, but you know the queen is always in the bottom box.

Just thought I would throw this into the mix.
 #11435  by JoJo36
 13 Jul 2021, 13:05
Ahh interesting, so really double brood by dividing brood between 2 boxes to avoid swarming caused by lack of space??!!
I assume eventually you condense it back to single brood when swarming season over??!!
Its good to have different methods to try as most are 'trial and error'!!
 #11437  by AdamD
 13 Jul 2021, 13:33
Many of my colonies go through summer on double brood; some will attempt to swarm and some won't. Those that attempt to swarm or have a queen replaced sometimes finish up in one brood box. That might increase to two or to a super under brood before winter depending on what frames I have available. Some will remain with two brood boxes all summer and over winter, possibly shrinking down to one brood box in spring.
In answer for me, the management depends on what happens with the colony - no hard and fast rules. I guess the thing is to separate the tree constituent parts of a colony somehow to stop swarming; queen/brood&nurse bees/flying bees.
 #11439  by Caroline
 13 Jul 2021, 16:54
JoJo36 wrote:
13 Jul 2021, 13:05
I assume eventually you condense it back to single brood when swarming season over??!!
Indeed, I only operate on this system for a short time, depending on what point in the season it is. If it was a prolific colony I would just use standard double brood (which I try to avoid due to the extra lifting).

As Adam says, colonies will still swarm on double brood.

The best thing is to get to know your bees, every colony is different. I try to 'interfere' as little as possible, and by that I do not mean "let alone beekeeping", but to carry out regular inspections at intervals suitable to the condition of the individual colony and to work with them; if a first attempt at swarm prevention isn't working then I work with the bees and use whichever swarm control I feel is best at the time, rather than continually trying to prevent them from raising queen cells and ending up with a swarm anyway.

But we all have different ideas and methods. That's what makes a forum like this interesting and useful.
 #11442  by JoJo36
 13 Jul 2021, 17:43
Fair enough!
Out of interest and nothing to do with swarming, does anyone place a super of stores for winter underneath the brood box and when spring arrives, place it on top so the super is empty when required in spring?
I know somebody that does this and has done so for years but I've never tried and like the idea of an empty super in spring to start again sounds organised which I need to be??!!
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7