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  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #5171  by Wildfire
 11 Nov 2019, 15:20
Ok bit late in the day to be asking advice
about over wintering my bees but I have been given so much conflicting advice that in actual fact Al I've done in the end is ...
Remove supers ,place mouse guard over entrance ,feed sugar syrup and some gentle treatment to keep varoa at bay.
I'm concerned that they are only in a brood box ,both colonies !
One colony is a swarm given to me and the other a nuc from June .They both seem to be doing quite well.Should I feed with fondant ?.
Also other bee keepers talk about overwintering on a brood and a half ? Does this mean I should have put a super under the brood box with no queen excluder
Advice please thanks
Really hope I haven't messed this up :roll:
 #5172  by Alfred
 11 Nov 2019, 15:49
From my VAST knowledge :lol:
They ought to be in a polyhive or insulated wooden one with a thick slab of Kingspan under the lid.
Multiple brood boxes only if there are bees to fill them- you might have only six full frames of bees..Hopefully they should have chugged down enough syrup to fill the empty frames,so the box should feel really heavy,I'm told 2kg per frame.
That is of course if the frames are drawn ,-if not then they are useless.Id consider removing them and replacing them with Kingspan.Pick the warmest day the forecast allows if you have to do any interfering as it's getting too cold to mess them about now.
Feed fondant if the boxes have scant stores already ,consider it soon as the box lightens over the next couple of months,then they will wait until a lovely warm sunny spring morning to die :shock:
It's my first winter too and having had a spring loss I'm twitchy about the whole thing so you're in good company.... :|
 #5175  by Japey Edge
 11 Nov 2019, 22:25
Wildfire wrote:
11 Nov 2019, 15:20
Ok bit late in the day to be asking advice
about over wintering my bees but I have been given so much conflicting advice that in actual fact Al I've done in the end is ...
Remove supers ,place mouse guard over entrance ,feed sugar syrup and some gentle treatment to keep varoa at bay.
I'm concerned that they are only in a brood box ,both colonies !
One colony is a swarm given to me and the other a nuc from June .They both seem to be doing quite well.Should I feed with fondant ?.
Also other bee keepers talk about overwintering on a brood and a half ? Does this mean I should have put a super under the brood box with no queen excluder
Advice please thanks
Really hope I haven't messed this up :roll:
This is my first winter too and I've been fairly confident to now. Two national poly hives and one poly nuc. Been hefting regularly after using August and September to fill them chocker with sugar syrup and thymol. They feel pretty heavy. Like you, I have given them a form of autumn varroa treatment.

I'll be keeping a keen eye on this thread. I need to start looking into what the Api Bioxal trickle is. I have the pouches but no idea what to do. :lol:
 #5176  by NigelP
 12 Nov 2019, 09:21
It would be helpful to know how much syrup was fed and if they are on open mesh or solid floors. An idea of the number of seams of bees would give a better indication of colony size.
If you are concerned they don't have enough feed add a slab of fondant. Better over fed than dead through starvation. I usually give a colony at least a 2.5kg bag directly onto the top bars with an eke. Many put it over the holes in the crownboard, something you get away with most winters but in a very cold one they won't move to take it.. As I have found to my bitter experience.
Other than that close off any holes in crown board and add a slab of insulation (Kingspan/ polystyrene) on top of the crown board. It helps the hive retain heat which means they use less stores to maintain their internal temperature.
I close off my open mesh floors, but take the inserts out and clean regularly. Many just leave the floors open. Your choice.
And don't worry about them being in a single brood box, they should be fine. Brood and super is usually good for very big colonies, say 10 seams of bees. But most bees will overwinter fine on a single box. My thinking, rightly or wrongly, is you want them snug and crammed up, not sparsely spread about with lots of empty free space.
 #5177  by Wildfire
 12 Nov 2019, 10:01
Ok thanks guys .
Bit worried I haven't fed them enough ,will put a slab of fondant on each hive .
By the way can anyone tell me where I can get a couple of pieces of kingspan from .Right size for hives .I use Nationals .Thanks ;)
 #5178  by Japey Edge
 12 Nov 2019, 10:45
For Kingspan/Celotex/Polystyrene check Facebook Marketplace, Shpock and Gumtree for anyone selling locally. Maybe post something in your local buy/sell group in case someone has some kicking about in their garage that they want rid of.
Also when you're out and about keep an eye out for skips. If anyone is doing any work involving insulation there will be offcuts.
I have some foil tape too which I wrap mine in, it's how I made the dummy boards. It's good for making sure there is no exposed insulation
 #5179  by NigelP
 12 Nov 2019, 12:18
Wildfire wrote:
12 Nov 2019, 10:01
Ok thanks guys .
Bit worried I haven't fed them enough ,will put a slab of fondant on each hive .
By the way can anyone tell me where I can get a couple of pieces of kingspan from .Right size for hives .I use Nationals .Thanks ;)
Wise move if unsure. Getting to know how much to feed your bees is a balancing act that you can only get by experience. There is no universal 1 solution that suits everyone. Different strains of bees, different parts of the country all have an influence on how much feed you need. For example Ivy is a late major nectar source in many parts of the southern and midlands so provided plenty of stores for the bees that they collect themselves. It is not yet in flower in my area of North Yorkshire.
Then you have the bees to content with, not all hives will deal with their stores the same way. For example I have about 14 hives in the back garden at the moment, all got fed at least 10 litres of thick syrup, some got a bit more as lighter. About 4 weeks ago they were all roughly the same weight. Last week I found one was light as a feather...so added fondant as a precaution.
I'd like to think all will now behave but their is often a few that burn through their stores whilst others are frugal...so just keep a watchful eye on them.
 #5180  by AdamD
 12 Nov 2019, 14:01
They will be fine in a single box - and feed if they need it. Usually the problem time is February + March as they rear more brood and need to consume stores to keep it warm.

I noticed this today, by chance, in the February 24th edition of the 1921 British Bee Journal as advice for overwintering:-

"When taking a peep during winter from overhead or when supplying new cakes of candy, be very careful to smooth down the various layers of packing material, as any leaking may work serious harm by aiding in an escape of heat. Conserve heat in every way you can, right through winter and spring".

We didn't have kingspan 100 years ago but beekeepers were well aware of the need to keep warmth inside the hive. Roll on 50 years with the use of plywood crown boards and the discarding of "quilts" and the received wisdom was to ventilate the hive to keep it cold! It's fair to say that we have now swung back to keeping the hive well insulated (most beekeepers I would guess) - whether it's in polyhives or insulating the roof.
 #5188  by Wildfire
 13 Nov 2019, 14:54
Hi just to say thanks again for all your great advise I feel a bit more confident now and will defo add some fondant ,a quilt ,and keep a look out for kingspan
All the best :)
 #5191  by nealh
 13 Nov 2019, 17:36
Heft the hives form the rear using just a couple of fingers once the hive is free from it's stand, if it is hard to heft then you can be fairly confident that stores are good. If it lifts easily then hive is probably light so think about fondant on the top bars in an eke.. Mine appear to have all done well during late Autumn and backed upby the aroma I was getting at the time, ivy income for them has been very good.