Missing Queen and Queen Cells - Advice Please

[BeesKnees78]

Hi everyone,
I am a second-year beekeeper, so relatively new. I have one hive in my rear garden in outer London. It was a relatively small colony and I have only seen the queen on a few occasions as she seems quite skittish! In June there were hardly any honey stores, I assume due to the terrible wet weather we had. But within three weeks I had a full box of sealed honey stores which I was delighted about and lots of bees. I removed approx. 6 frames of honey and replaced with foundation frames. The brood box was packed so I put on a new brood box with new frames of foundation and spread the existing frames between the two boxes so there would be more space for laying/brood/honey.
All seemed well when I checked them last week and amazingly, I seen the queen. This weekend when I checked 7-8 days later there were multiple capped queen cells. These were all on the older brood frames, as they have not made much headway on the new frames. I was really concerned that the hive would swarm, especially as I'm very fond of them.
I searched for the queen on two separate occasions with no luck but I can see larva, I guessed she was in there somewhere. I was unsure what the best course should be but having read articles on the internet I decided to try and separate the queen cells from the queen and split the hive this way. After checking for the queen again, I shook the bees off each frame after checking, putting aside those with queen cells. I tore down all the queen cells bar one and put this in the top brood box with some frames of honey and brood but without any bees. I hope that the queen is in the bottom brood box and that the bees will naturally split between the two boxes. I can then remove the brood box with the queen cell and bees.
Have I done the right thing? I'm very stressed about did I make the right decision. I just want to prevent the bees from swarming away. Was it a good idea to tear down all the queen cells bar one, I thought they might swarm more than once if I didn’t. What does everyone think....

[JoJo36]

Hi there Beesknees78!
Everyone will give you a different answer but for what its worth
I would suggest leaving the one queen cell with some food in the bottom box with the partly drawn new combs so the swarmy bees think they have swarmed already and they should create a new queen and fill out the undrawn combs at the same time! .
I would put your old queen in the top box and the bees with her should destroy any swarm cells in that box! It doesn't always go to plan (especially from my experience) You will need a board to separate them and I usually use a snelgrove board. If you don't have one, get an old crown board and cut out a small opening for the bees in the top box with the queen to enter and exit their own little box! If you find your queen try to mark her and if possible clip her?! Ideally at least mark her to enable you to spot her more easily in future.
Don't despair because if the queen you had has gone, the bees should still go ahead and raise a new queen with the queen cell you left! If your queen is spotted, it will be easier to go through the brood box she's in as it's the swarmy bees that are troublesome!!

[BeesKnees78]

Hi there Beesknees78!
Everyone will give you a different answer but for what its worth
I would suggest leaving the one queen cell with some food in the bottom box with the partly drawn new combs so the swarmy bees think they have swarmed already and they should create a new queen and fill out the undrawn combs at the same time! .
I would put your old queen in the top box and the bees with her should destroy any swarm cells in that box! It doesn't always go to plan (especially from my experience) You will need a board to separate them and I usually use a snelgrove board. If you don't have one, get an old crown board and cut out a small opening for the bees in the top box with the queen to enter and exit their own little box! If you find your queen try to mark her and if possible clip her?! Ideally at least mark her to enable you to spot her more easily in future.
Don't despair because if the queen you had has gone, the bees should still go ahead and raise a new queen with the queen cell you left! If your queen is spotted, it will be easier to go through the brood box she's in as it's the swarmy bees that are troublesome!!

Hi JoJo36,
Thank-you for your advice. I will try to swap them around as you said. I was thinking to put the brood box with the queen cell in its own hive but I'm waiting for the kit to arrive. I naively thought that as they were such a small colony at the beginning of the year that I wouldn't have a problem with swarming this year but my bees are thinking otherwise. Thank-you again for your help!

[JoJo36]

If you have lost your queen and she is definitely not there, you could just leave the colony with the one queen cell in a single brood box with the older drawn combs, sealed brood and honey and keep the spare undrawn frames aside for next year with your spare brood box?!
If she is still there, keep her separated from the swarmers:)

[NigelP]

Hi, if the queen cells were capped when you found them chances are your queen has swarmed.
If there are no eggs or young larvae this would more or less confirm this. Leave your one queen cll and fingers crossed.

[BeesKnees78]

Hi,
Thank you everyones feedback, I really appreciate your advice. I have a feeling that the queen is still in the bottom brood box. In over a year of having her, I have only seen her a handful of times plus the bee numbers seem roughly the same - it very full, the honey that I left in the hive is still the same and I can see larva. I split the two boxes this morning as the bees had moved up to the empty box with the queen cell.
Fingers cross it all goes well, very stressful! I'll keep you updated if you like and thank-you again.

[NigelP]

Of course there will still be older larvae ,but are there eggs, or very very young larvae present?......if not your queen has most likely swarmed.

[MickBBKA]

You really want to see some eggs, but I think your Q is gone and it sound like you had lots of emergency Q cells rather than swarm cells. Its been a very hard year and the bees are acting very different to my previous 12 years experience. I hope it works out ok for you.

[BeesKnees78]

Hi,

Thank-you everyone for your thoughts and advice. I acted on it and first checked the new hive for signs of young eggs. No such luck, there is larvae though. Also the bees tore down the new queen cell I left overnight. I assume it is this, as it was nibbled near down to the comb with no sign of the peanut shaped cell and it would be too soon for the queen to be off on her maiden voyage as I assume its approx. day 11. However the bees are making a new queen cell so should I wait a week to check again, make sure its fully formed and leave the hive alone for a month? The bees seem quite subdued is this because they aren't queen right or stress from the move?
In the existing hive, I checked again for the queen and young eggs but no sign of either. I really don't know what happened to her because the hive def. haven't swarmed unless I dropped her though I am very careful normally. Silly me for tearing down all the queen cells. The bees have started to make two new queen cells. Should I just let the bees select their queen and leave them to it or if there are more than two queen cells should I just select one or two in the hive?
I'd appreciate your advice in what to do. In regards to the hives, I think it is best to leave them as two separate entities. If one isn't queen right, I can then combined them together - would this be the sensible approach? Sorry for all the questions, this is a steep learning curve for me!

[JoJo36]

Lots of people say just leave 1 QC sealed and others leave 2, its down to individual choice I think?!

Some say if you leave 2 you could then get a cast swarm but I have left 2 and 1 and ended up with 1 queen so not sure if both work and to have 2 cells increases your chances of a good queen if 1 cell is a duffer??!!

You have your split now in two brood boxes, is that side by side or one on top of the other with a new entrance for the top box?

If you have a decent number of bees in each box and they are making more emergency queen cells, I would leave 1 or 2 sealed cells, (your choice) in each box and try to get them make a new queen! You could combine the boxes for winter making a strong colony or put each colony in a nuc box if on the small side (especially if they have separate queens).
Make sure they have plenty of food for winter....