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  • Mouse guards and chicken wire!

  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #1022  by Newbee
 10 Oct 2018, 12:23
Hi,

This is my first year of beekeeping, and first winter. Having managed to treat for varroa, and noenhaving fed my two colonies lots of thick sugar syrup, I’m thinking about replacing the mesh floors with solid floors, attaching mouse guards and putting a frame over each hive to protect against woodpeckers, which are to be found locally.

Are there any views on solid v. mesh floors over winter? And would the choice impact on the size of the entrance to which the mouse guard is fixed? I’m thinking here about ventilation. I understand that it is important to protect against cold winds, but wondered if this means having a wider opening at the entrance? The entrance blocks that I have have two “settings”: one about 6” and the other less than 2”, and I’ve had both on 2” due to wasps. Would I simply attach the guard to the existing 2” entrance, or should I flip the entrance block and attach the guard to the larger 6” entrance?

I’d also welcome any thoughts on how best to protect against woodpeckers. I plan to make a simple box frame and cover it in chicken wire, but if there are better ideas out there from experienced beekeepers, I’d love to hear them!

Thanks,

Newbee
 #1024  by Jim Norfolk
 10 Oct 2018, 14:40
Solid floors vs mesh floors could be a discussion on its own. I have always used mesh floors and converted the only solid floor I had years ago. Why do you want to change to solid floors? I think the current fashion is mesh floor, closed crownboard and insulation over it. Anyway that's what I do but I am sure others will do different. I believe bees overwinter well on both solid and mesh floors. It used to be solid floors and lots of top ventillation to prevent damp. Some people even used to advocate putting matchsticks under the crown board to increase top ventillation. Those were hardy bees in those days. Now we mollycoddle them and use insulation so water vapour doesn't condense on the crown board and drip on the bees.

Mouse guards are fine but if your entrance is small and low enough mice can't get in. Use a small entrance. Woodpecker guards I have used in the past made of wooden frame and chicken wire as you suggest.
 #1025  by AdamD
 10 Oct 2018, 16:22
I winter my colonies on mesh floors with the mite board out, except when monitoring. Insulation is put on the crown board - something like a 2" piece of celotex or kingspan foil-backed material if it is not already incorporated in the roof (vents closed). I generally run my colonies with an entrance of about 150 mm wide summer and winter. Being a cheapskate that means that I can cut a mouse-guard in half to use on two colonies! Having said that, I haven't used mouseguards for the last couple of years without problem. I guess I am playing Russian Roulette and sooner or later I will have mice inside. (Seen a few slugs though).

I have not protected from woodpeckers. They are likely to be more active around beehives when the ground is hard with frost or with snow and being near the coast, I generally don't get frosts like people do inland. There has been the odd "nibble" but nothing more, and something that looked like a rat (a guess) which wanted to get into a WBC and it ripped some wood away from around the entrance (didn't get in though). I understand that the problem arises when woodpeckers have been successful one year as they learn for the next.
 #1032  by Jim Norfolk
 10 Oct 2018, 17:50
Adam I also don't find mice a problem and didn't use mouse guards even on Nationals. One reason may be the insulation over the crown board. The winter cluster is far more open and the greater bee activity may well be enough to discourage mice from entering. Maybe metal mouseguards belong with the matchsticks.

One alternative to metal mouseguards I have seen is a line of panel pins at 8 mm intervals driven in across the entrance hole.
 #1203  by NigelP
 27 Oct 2018, 15:34
Jim Norfolk wrote:
10 Oct 2018, 17:50
One alternative to metal mouseguards I have seen is a line of panel pins at 8 mm intervals driven in across the entrance hole.
We have a cat, he's a good mouser.
Best thing I've seen if mice are a problem is the abelo sliding entrance reducer. You can have an opening practically any size or turn upside down and you get a mouse guard similar to a line of panel pins. Unlike the round holes one they don't knock the pollen off the legs of the bees as they return.
Image
 #1206  by Patrick
 27 Oct 2018, 17:47
I am told that the woodpecker issue is down to Green Woodpeckers, which are mainly ground feeders but in frozen weather may have a go at hives, particularly around the single skin areas or scoops into the body such as on Commercials. I have only had it happen once and the damage was not too bad (now have mesh pinned onto the inside over the area with a hole, was quickly propolised and just left as is).

Tbh, I personally don't worry about constructing specific fruit cage type covers around my hives nor do I pin on sheets of heavy plastic such as old fertiliser bags opened up and wrapped around the hives (stops woodpeckers from gripping onto hive. Its not been a repeated problem in my area.

I think a lot of worries about ventilation, mouldy combs and wide entrances relate to the old days of solid floors and heavy insulation. I do think they build up a bit quicker in the spring on solid floors but most of mine are still on open mesh floors and with minimal entrances all year and have never had a mouse problem to date (quickly crosses fingers). I do close off crownboard holes but do not worry about top insulation.

When i get round to trying a poly hive I may perhaps change my view on insulation, but to date I have never used it and we have had down to minus 16C down here for a protracted period in 2011 and they overwintered just fine.

Not saying it is the best way to overwinter, just that it works if folk are unsure what they should be doing or not. If I was at altitude up North I might well do differently.
 #1208  by NigelP
 27 Oct 2018, 18:49
Patrick wrote:
27 Oct 2018, 17:47

I think a lot of worries about ventilation, mouldy combs and wide entrances relate to the old days of solid floors and heavy insulation.
Old days they used matchsticks to allow good ventilation :) Insulation had been forgotten about....
Poly's advantages come into play in Spring., faster build up. Bees will overwinter well in either, but will use less stores in poly compared to wood. They are born survivors.
 #1379  by cambsbeekeep
 19 Nov 2018, 10:46
Sorry to join in a bit late, Newbee, but my fourpennyworth is use Open mesh Floors all year with the Varroa count board out (until you do a count which you do before and after using Varroa control, and then take out again once completed), plus closed crown board with a bit of insulation on the top if you live in a particularly harsh climate area. As far as woodpecker protection, I pin a bit of plastic down the sides with drawing pins or similar, from just under the roof level to the floor level - it prevents the birds getting a purchase on the wood to peck through. I use an opened-out dog-feed or horse-feed bag, but anything similar would do. Mouse guards go on over the entrance, which is down to a 4 - 6 cm width, at the same time. I just want to give the bees any protection I can. Insurance rather than clearing up the mess in the spring.
 #1380  by Steve (The Drone)
 20 Nov 2018, 10:03
I inherited a load of WBC lifts, made some roofs , and use these over the Nationals for winter insulation and woodpecker protection. The varroa slide stays out unless it gets really cold. I also under super. The bees may be being coddled but they over-winter well and start up strongly in spring.
The Abdelo style guards that Nigel recommends are excellent. Simply reverse the slides when you are moving colonies! Job done
Steve.
 #1385  by Jim Norfolk
 20 Nov 2018, 15:02
Steve (The Drone) wrote:
20 Nov 2018, 10:03
I inherited a load of WBC lifts, made some roofs , and use these over the Nationals for winter insulation and woodpecker protection.
Good idea but why are WBC boxes only 10 frame when there is room to have made a square 11 frame box?