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British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Oxalic acid time. What do you plan to do?

  • Honeybee pests and diseases.
Honeybee pests and diseases.
 #1516  by NigelP
 12 Dec 2018, 08:23
If contemplating a sublimox, you might want to have a look at this thread on t'other forum about a home-made cheaper (run on gas) alternative. Plans are posted but you need to be able to silver solder...way above my pay scale ;)
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=43498

Mine is arriving this week.
I shall be happy to report back on it.
Safety masks an absolute essential when using this "active" type of sublimator.
 #1517  by Patrick
 12 Dec 2018, 16:13
Couldn't agree more regarding the face mask Nigel. Absolute requirement if you ask me (which nobody did).

You see quite a few youtube vids of people in swirling clouds of oxalic vapour with no or pretty basic protection. Heck, its only one way of treating varroa on bees people, its not worth imperiling your health for.

If the diy vapouriser part doesn't meet your needs with the chef blowtorch, creme brulees will never again present a challenge . For a laugh, I once used my plumbing blowtorch to caramalise the sugar on top of one at the dinner table when we had friends round.

I think it is fair to describe the surrounding guests as being "startled"!

And there's me making observations on H&S.... the hypocrisy of it.. :D
 #1518  by Jim Norfolk
 13 Dec 2018, 11:10
So how dangerous is oxalic acid? Having done a fair bit of lab work with chemicals over the years , I agree they should all be treated with respect. With Api Bioxal we have a fine powder which disperses into the air when handled. The old regular oxalic crystals we used to use don't do that and so were much safer to handle. Once in solution, it is pretty safe. You are unlikely to drink it and acid splashed on your skin soon tells you its there. Yes wear gloves by all means but dilute acid washed off promptly is not a problem. Anything and everything which came into contact with the oxalic acid, I put in a bowl and rinse thoroughly then wash hands. Trickling is essentially safe in my view.

Oxalic acid vapour is a different matter since it can be inhaled causing internal damage. If you are generating clouds of it then yes full protection is essential. Once placed in the Varrox type the oxalic acid is actually fairly safe to use. Put a lit smoker on top of the hive to show where the wind goes. Position the battery up wind and connect up the Varrox and walk away upwind for the prescrbed time. Disconnect and then walk away for several more minutes to allow any OA vapour to condense. Once everything has cooled there is no problem from the vapour. If your hive is well sealed up before switching on, very little vapour should escape from the hive. Varrox is great for small numbers of hives and safe to use if you are careful.
 #1519  by AdamD
 13 Dec 2018, 13:22
Can anyone confirm the type of mask required? I recall it was shown in the old forum but not here.

Despite the fact that vaporising is (potentially) a bit better than trickling, the downsides are that it costs more in equipment including PPE, it takes longer than trickling and is less safe (especially without the ppe). So for a couple of hives, it is possibly not a cost-effective solution compared to trickling.

Nigel, I will be interested to learn how your new 'toy' works. It certainly saves on lugging a battery about.
 #1520  by NigelP
 13 Dec 2018, 14:43
This is what I use for sublimation. I can confirm it works.
3m 6000 series half mask reusable respirator 6200 medium or 6300 large
Some may prefer a full mask.
Filters.
1. 3M 6059 ABEK1 Organic Vapour Filters / 6000 SERIes
2. 1 Pair 3M 501 Filter Retainer For Use 5000 6000 7000 Series particulate Filters
3. 3M 5935 / P3 Particulate Filters


My new toy works fine It's a clever simple bit of kit, but needs a little redesign as it won't cope with long landing boards (like Paynes and Abelo polys). I also need to play around with the flame settings as it got so hot OA (Apibioxal) was sublimating as I put into the filler cap.
But despite a few issues it will be living in my kit for sublimating newly made up nucs/broodless hives etc
 #1525  by Chrisbarlow
 15 Dec 2018, 17:23
thanks for the post Nigel. I have also indulged now and await the parcel arriving.

this is the mask I am going to purchase for using

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-6000-Series-Full-Face-Vapour-Gas-Dust-Mask-Respirator-6800-Spray-Paint-UK/273515802178?_trkparms=aid%3D555017%26algo%3DPL.CASSINI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D55149%26meid%3D9c733f32c0964e39a725301b05e9fa2f%26pid%3D101006%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26%26itm%3D273515802178&_trksid=p2045573.c101006.m3226

I have no idea why the forum wont let me put a hyper link on for a web page either!
 #1542  by Chrisbarlow
 18 Dec 2018, 18:44
DianeBees wrote:
18 Dec 2018, 13:49
https://bit.ly/2rHuLOv

I don't know why it runs off the page - will it handle a bitly link? No that's just text to copy.
ta Diane, glad its not just me. I am sure you used to be able to add a hyper link with no problems at all.
 #1710  by Jules59
 19 Jan 2019, 10:46
Hi
This is my first winter of beekeeping.
I have 2 WBC hives.
Both hives have had 2 doses of Abi-Bioxal via the trickle method (Dec & Jan, 3 weeks apart).
The hive, with the largest colony, has always had a low VC (current droprate of 0.7/day)

The other (a split from the other) went from low VC in August to very high in December .
The drop rate for this "bad" hive has fallen from 65/day, to 36/day and now is 3.6/day.

Do you recommend I give the "bad" hive a 3rd dose of Abi-Bioxal ? (The NBU calculator says "yes")
Should I treat both hives again (they are 3m apart)?

Jules
 #1711  by Jim Norfolk
 19 Jan 2019, 12:53
Jules, those counts you give, were they for before oxalic acid was applied? If so they were dangerously high at the sort of probable colony loss level. Any idea how many mites fell after you applied the oxalic acid? I would be expecting towards a thousand over a week or two or maybe even more. What treatments did you give in August/September?

I would be inclined not to give a third dose, but wait and see how it looks in March when you can give a spring treatment of MAQS if levels start to get high, provided the colony is large enough. It is likely that you will lose a lot of bees over winter to virus with such high mite levels. Keep the bees warm with insulation over the crown board. Keep monitoring mite drop every week or so if weather allows.