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  • Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
 #6984  by Steve 1972
 11 May 2020, 10:25
Jazz I have posted my most successful method of introducing new Queens four posts up..as you will have read we have many ways of doing it but like a say that is my best way..
 #6987  by Patrick
 11 May 2020, 11:56
Steve 1972 wrote:. or kill the Queen you don't want and unite the nice Queen side over news paper to the now Queen (-) colony..
Steve maybe a typo but are you saying you did a vertical newspaper unite i.e. one box above the other, or unite horizontally, reinserting removed nuc frames and put newspaper between them and rest of frames in the old box?
 #6988  by AdamD
 11 May 2020, 13:38
Generally a reliable way is to put a queen in a plastic cage between two frames. The cage is big enough that the queen can hide from being nibbled which can happen on occasions, I understand.
I have tried introducing without a cage, just using a heavy smoking. Never had a problem with that.
I have to say that I am replacing my own queens with my own and the new laying queen was out of a hive for, say 5 minutes maximum, so in good laying condition. We hear that transported, imported queens can be superceded quite soon after introduction.
A newspaper unite with a nuc to a bigger q- colony is generally safe. However I have had 2 newspaper unites fail; both at the same time - height of summer and no forage. I would now gently feed both colonies the day before introduction in a situation like this and have not had a problem since.

Queencells work into queenless hives - as you would expect. From my experience, virgin queens don't introduce well, even into mini-nucs and have usually gone after a week.
 #6989  by Steve 1972
 11 May 2020, 13:39
Once the Queen has got going in the nuc i put the frames into a brood box..i then dispose of the Queen i do not want and place a sheet of news paper over the now Queen - hive and place the new Queen in the brood box ontop..the frames need sorting out in a few days and once i know the Queen is in the bottom box the Queen excluder goes back on..
 #7018  by Japey Edge
 11 May 2020, 23:34
Steve 1972 wrote:
11 May 2020, 10:25
Jazz I have posted my most successful method of introducing new Queens four posts up..as you will have read we have many ways of doing it but like a say that is my best way..
I appreciate that Steve. I want to try these push in cages as I've been convinced that getting the queen to lay will help adoption.
It's just getting the extra bees for the queenless nuc I am splitting into two nucs (for the two queens) that I'm struggling to add to my plan. If I shake bees from supers of other colonies that will lead to them fighting so I would then have to lift off supers and find frames of capped brood to donate.
Either that or just dummy down the split queenless nuc to two small, three or four frame nucs for queen intro purposes.

Will try to document this all of course.
 #7174  by Japey Edge
 16 May 2020, 13:19
Checked on push-in cages today.

Nuc 1 - Queen dead. No eggs. I'm guessing I missed a bee or two sneaking in when I put the cage in and they killed her. Gutted. Absolutely gutted. Had to give them a frame of eggs to make their own.

Nuc 2 - Queen alive. Eggs. Bees seemed to take a liking to her. I didn't sense any aggression. So I removed the cage and left them to it. They have a feed on too as they were so small I wanted to help them out a bit.

So 50% success rate with push-in cages. Unless there's another reason, I really need to make sure she's on her lonesome when in that cage.
 #7177  by NigelP
 16 May 2020, 14:38
Aye Jazz, nothing in queen introduction is 100%.
Bad luck on your part.
I presume this was a nuc of local bees where you were trying to introduce a Buckfast queen to? It's the hardest introduction in my opinion; cos if they are anything like the locals in my area extremely reluctant to be requeened.
I tried those cage introduction thingys but found they had to be firmly embedded down to the foundation base and even then bees will chew all around to get at a queen if they are not happy with her. If everything is done right they are supposed to be as good as it gets, but must say I found them a bit of a faff, particularly getting queens into them.
I'll stick with suspending the queen and her attendants in the travel cage they arrived in between two frames for 3-4 days Then see how the bees are behaving toward her before breaking the tab over the candy and letting the bees release her.

Keep a look out in the nuc you did get the queen accepted for a few queen cells appearing. It happens pretty frequently and is (I think) a misdirected attempt by the original bees to raise their own queen rather than be saddled with "foreign" genetics. It stops as soon as the new queen is surrounded by her own offspring in about 3-4 weeks time.
 #7178  by Japey Edge
 16 May 2020, 14:44
Much appreciated Nigel.

Yes they were locals that failed to supersede their 2 year old local queen.

I remember trying the way you mentioned last year with the GM queen, under your guidance, and it worked perfectly. I am glad I have the experience now because I had it in my head that these push-in cages are the best way and would guarantee success so even at cost to me I have it out of my system and can move on :-)

As strange as that sounds. Since I gave them a frame of eggs from the nice colony I will refrain from purchasing another. I will just see what the offspring of nice queen and my locals will make.
 #7179  by NigelP
 16 May 2020, 15:08
If its eggs from an open mated queen, in my area it's about 50:50 whether they are good or tetchy....any further downstream and they are almost as loco as the locals.
Interestingly I now have 3 new laying queens (and hopefully a 4th) from the supercedure cells from my old (RIP) Island Mated queen. Normally I would only be starting queen rearing about now. To have 3 or 4 new queens off and laying in early May is unheard of in these parts.
 #7182  by stechad
 16 May 2020, 15:55
Japey Edge wrote:
16 May 2020, 13:19
Nuc 1 - Queen dead. No eggs. I'm guessing I missed a bee or two sneaking in when I put the cage in and they killed her. Gutted. Absolutely gutted. Had to give them a frame of eggs to make their own.
Bad luck Jaz, if it's any consolation my new queen was not accepted and nowhere to be seen,