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Queen breeding specialism discussion forum.
 #8821  by Cable_Fairy
 10 Sep 2020, 17:41
Chris, many thanks for your two reply's, yes the weather for the next week or so is very good here also. If she does not mate, and starts laying drones then there is no option but to combine the two hives for the winter and start again in spring.
 #8823  by Chrisbarlow
 10 Sep 2020, 18:52
Cable_Fairy wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 17:41
Chris, many thanks for your two reply's, yes the weather for the next week or so is very good here also. If she does not mate, and starts laying drones then there is no option but to combine the two hives for the winter and start again in spring.
When did you see queen cells?

I count forward 3 weeks from "hatch" day and check for eggs. If no eggs, then in my view there won't be. However, sometimes the patch can be small, so can be missed, give it another week and you'll see grubs.

Only then consider it a failure. If after 4 weeks from hatch date, no brood.

Good luck with your mating, I suspect she'll be mated quickly and well.
 #8824  by Chrisbarlow
 10 Sep 2020, 18:54
If she does go drone layer. Make sure you find and cull her before uniting with another colony.
 #8826  by Cable_Fairy
 10 Sep 2020, 20:32
Chrisbarlow wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 18:52
Cable_Fairy wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 17:41
Chris, many thanks for your two reply's, yes the weather for the next week or so is very good here also. If she does not mate, and starts laying drones then there is no option but to combine the two hives for the winter and start again in spring.
When did you see queen cells?

I count forward 3 weeks from "hatch" day and check for eggs. If no eggs, then in my view there won't be. However, sometimes the patch can be small, so can be missed, give it another week and you'll see grubs.

Only then consider it a failure. If after 4 weeks from hatch date, no brood.

Good luck with your mating, I suspect she'll be mated quickly and well.
Thanks again, I found the queen cell on the 24th August and doing my calculations from that date, on the 1st Sept the cell was opened, so by your reply there should be eggs on the 22nd or thereabouts. I will certainly find her before uniting the two hives.
 #8852  by AdamD
 12 Sep 2020, 14:01
I saw eggs yesterday from a young queen, so she's just been on her nuptual flight(s) early this week.
 #8984  by Cable_Fairy
 22 Sep 2020, 20:16
Cable_Fairy wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 20:32
Chrisbarlow wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 18:52
Cable_Fairy wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 17:41
Chris, many thanks for your two reply's, yes the weather for the next week or so is very good here also. If she does not mate, and starts laying drones then there is no option but to combine the two hives for the winter and start again in spring.
When did you see queen cells?

I count forward 3 weeks from "hatch" day and check for eggs. If no eggs, then in my view there won't be. However, sometimes the patch can be small, so can be missed, give it another week and you'll see grubs.

Only then consider it a failure. If after 4 weeks from hatch date, no brood.

Good luck with your mating, I suspect she'll be mated quickly and well.
Thanks again, I found the queen cell on the 24th August and doing my calculations from that date, on the 1st Sept the cell was opened, so by your reply there should be eggs on the 22nd or thereabouts. I will certainly find her before uniting the two hives.
As an update, I checked them quickly on the 15th and thought I saw a few eggs, checked them today and there is four frames chocka full of brood in all stages, I hope I can keep them going over winter. Many thanks to all for all the words of wisdom.
 #8988  by AdamD
 23 Sep 2020, 11:30
That's good news.
I whipped the top of a colony yesterday and the big fat supercedure queen had just started laying. There's just a little sealed brood from her mum, the previous queen.
 #8989  by AdamD
 23 Sep 2020, 11:34
Chrisbarlow wrote:
10 Sep 2020, 17:26

Virgin Queens will attempt several mating flights over a two week period to mate with multiple drones. You hear figures of 12-18 drone partners banded about.
They prefer sunny days in the high teens and twenty temps for their mating flights. I suspect different sub species of millifera can mate in lower or higher temps though.
Approximately four weeks after emergence, if she has not mated at least once I believe her spermatheca solidifies and she is then unable to mate.... Ever
If this happens she will become a drone laying queen.
The hive is then doomed unless the Beekeeper makes an intervention Of some kind. For instance, provides a frame of eggs or a mated queen or another virgin Queen. depending on the time of year depends what action is appropriate
To add to this, a queen needs, say, 6 days from emergence before she is mature enough to mate. Overall it may take a couple of weeks or more for the queen to start to lay however she can mate well in just one day and start laying a couple of days later. The quickest I've seen is 8 days from emergence to an egg laid.
 #8996  by Chrisbarlow
 23 Sep 2020, 14:08
I've heard of queens getting mated in that time frame as well.

I thought queens were 3-4 days to reach sexual maturity

I believe that the smaller the colony the quicker the queens get mated ie mini mating nucs mate quicker then poly nucs or colonies
 #8998  by AdamD
 23 Sep 2020, 16:05
Yep, I've had bad weather for weeks and then just one good day before bad weather again - and all the queens got up and mated in that one good days' weather window.
A queen in a mini-nuc is often laying after a couple of days. It does generally take longer in a larger colony. (Yeates' study notes are wrong in this respect and gets it the wrong way around).