BBKA Forum

British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Shook swarm

  • Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
Beginners forum, ask beekeeping related questions and get help from other experienced beekeepers. Please use the Search Feature please to avoid duplicated threads
 #3695  by Leeval1970
 22 Jun 2019, 07:39
I want to perform a shook swarm on my hive . The hive consists of 3 supers of a Polish style poly hive ( that i was gifted )and 4 of uk national . The poly super frames are larger than national and ive had to nail timber to them to make up the difference .There isnt a QE in the hive at all because of the odd sizes of supers and me not having any Polish style equipment .Placing them into a completely National hive so I can use the gear I have on hand seems the best way forward. Ive never done a shook swarm and im finding it a little daunting .Im more concerned about losing the 3bottom supers of brood and stores alln one go but I cant see any other option .Do i try the shook swarm now or wait until Autumn when the colony has naturally reduced in numbers. Thanks for any advice,Lee
 #3696  by Patrick
 22 Jun 2019, 09:36
Hi Lee

So as I understand it you have queen and brood nest over a stack of seven supers, 3x polish and 4 national. You want to retain the national supers. Have they swarmed out this year or are they pretty strong? If they have swarmed out they may not be strong enough to shook swarm. Don’t be tempted to put the National supers over the box of foundation if it has brood in them. The bees may just stay up with the brood in the supers and largely ignore queeny and foundation - it also complicates feeding them to draw wax.

Option 1. Shook swarm. Best done with a strong colony, they will make up lost brood. Put new Brood box and foundation on old site - shake all bees into it, put on a feeder and feed heavily. Leave supers a distance away and securely sealed to prevent mice or bees find it and causing mayhem. Once brood box established, replace Nat supers over QX.

You do have at least one other option, if they are strong. If you can find the queen (yes, I know..,) you could do an artificial swarm, putting new brood box on old site with queen and flying bees, and super stack on another floor alongside. The queenless super stack will raise queen cells which you will need to remove, but should hatch your brood. Then after three weeks you put the national supers back over a QX on the brood chamber and shake the polish frames into the top. They all have the same Mum so should reunite without issue.

I wouldn’t wait until Autumn - it’s not the best time of year to be drawing wax and that’s not when you want to write off several weeks of winter bees, plus they need feeding plus varroa treating. Get yourself sorted now and go into winter ready and strong for next year. Good luck !
 #3697  by AdamD
 22 Jun 2019, 09:50
As an option - I have moved bees from one frame type to another (say National to Langstroth) by using an adaptor board made of 6 mm plywood with a queen excluder between - this might be possible if you put the queen excluder on top of your national brood box with the adaptor board on top. But a bit of messing about.

A shook swarm is quick - although a bit brutal. I would say do it now rather than wait until autumn.
 #3698  by Leeval1970
 22 Jun 2019, 10:31
Patrick wrote:
22 Jun 2019, 09:36
Hi Lee

So as I understand it you have queen and brood nest over a stack of seven supers, 3x polish and 4 national. You want to retain the national supers. Have they swarmed out this year or are they pretty strong? If they have swarmed out they may not be strong enough to shook swarm. Don’t be tempted to put the National supers over the box of foundation if it has brood in them. The bees may just stay up with the brood in the supers and largely ignore queeny and foundation - it also complicates feeding them to draw wax.

Option 1. Shook swarm. Best done with a strong colony, they will make up lost brood. Put new Brood box and foundation on old site - shake all bees into it, put on a feeder and feed heavily. Leave supers a distance away and securely sealed to prevent mice or bees find it and causing mayhem. Once brood box established, replace Nat supers over QX.

You do have at least one other option, if they are strong. If you can find the queen (yes, I know..,) you could do an artificial swarm, putting new brood box on old site with queen and flying bees, and super stack on another floor alongside. The queenless super stack will raise queen cells which you will need to remove, but should hatch your brood. Then after three weeks you put the national supers back over a QX on the brood chamber and shake the polish frames into the top. They all have the same Mum so should reunite without issue.

I wouldn’t wait until Autumn - it’s not the best time of year to be drawing wax and that’s not when you want to write off several weeks of winter bees, plus they need feeding plus varroa treating. Get yourself sorted now and go into winter ready and strong for next year. Good luck !
Thanks you for our reply . They are a very strong colony so should bounce back after a shook swarm.Just trying to sort everything out in my head before i go over to my hives.I am determined to do something with them this weekend. I need to check on equipment available and take it all over and get it done . Many thanks,Lee
 #3699  by Patrick
 22 Jun 2019, 13:59
Don’t be embarrassed to take simple notes or drawings out to the hives with you. It’s easy to get distracted and lose the thread of what you are needing to do. 👍