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British Beekeepers Association Official Forum 

  • Collecting a swarm

  • share the funny, scary & the completely stupid things you've seen & heard
share the funny, scary & the completely stupid things you've seen & heard
 #8145  by Zadost
 08 Jul 2020, 08:35
Two years ago I had a call to pick up a swarm local to me. My first swarm pick up by the way. Having just lost my bees - just all absconded, I rushed out without thinking wearing flip flops with no socks.
Arrived at the house to find the swarm in a tree with a large family watching through french windows. Shook the bees as best as I could into a box under and of course loads of bees on the ground. Stung on the feet and ankles so many times but had to pretend with the audience watching all was well while hopping around like a demented comedian😂😂. Will never forget protective boots etc again. What a fool.
Still have the swarm by the way and will get 2 supers of honey this season with a full super or more Still left on for winter. Very defensive hive by the way. Would this be because it was a swarm initially?
 #8147  by AndrewLD
 08 Jul 2020, 17:34
Zadost wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 08:35
Still have the swarm by the way and will get 2 supers of honey this season with a full super or more Still left on for winter. Very defensive hive by the way. Would this be because it was a swarm initially?
Short answer - No.
Defensive bees are sometimes associated with high honey yields but three supers this year is not a high honey yield. Perhaps you just have nasty bees........
 #8148  by Chrisbarlow
 08 Jul 2020, 18:40
This is a good talk by Randy Oliver where he talks about what can make bees aggressive ...

https://youtu.be/OcfqTx4_FAo
 #8149  by NigelP
 08 Jul 2020, 18:58
Hope he mentions genetics......
Never sure why good yields and aggression are correlated. Usually it's breeding for honey collection and docility.
 #8150  by NigelP
 08 Jul 2020, 19:47
Zadost wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 08:35
Very defensive hive by the way. Would this be because it was a swarm initially?
Unlikely, just the nature of some bees. Usual rule is to try to get them calmer, makes for easier and more pleasant beekeeping. This can involve finding calm local queens to requeen your hive with or buying in calm queens such as Italians, Carniolans or Buckfast.
Whole threads on requeening, just use the search function.
 #8151  by Patrick
 08 Jul 2020, 23:23
Loving the image Zadost 😁

Swarm collections are rather like weddings, the more memorable ones are often when things don’t go quite to plan.

The act of swarming may not influence temperament but it is certainly arguable that more aggressive colonies are often inspected less and therefore able to to successfully swarm and then cast swarm. I have several times been asked to help beekeepers with swarms which it has transpired came from colonies not inspected for many months as the beekeeper had “left them to it”. Whilst understandable, this just spreads rubbish drones locally as well.

The aggressive bees gather more honey doesn’t make much sense unless you factor in possible robbing of other hives and arguably less beekeeper disturbance. And even if it was true, are a few extra jars really worth every inspection being a feat of endurance?

Defensive I don’t mind, proactively aggressive is something else.
 #8152  by AndrewLD
 09 Jul 2020, 09:13
AndrewLD wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 17:34
Defensive bees are sometimes associated with high honey yields but three supers this year is not a high honey yield.
What was behind that statement was:
1. Brother Adam's book on "In search of the best strains of bee" seemed to link honey yield with defensive bees. He was of course trying to find bees that were good honey producers, low swarming, manageable etc.
2. Bees in colder climates need more stores to survive (good honey producers) and have learnt to defend their hives (defensive) - simples :D
3. All this modern stuff about heritage bees - the French black and the English bee - good honey producers ignores the fact that they were little b*stards to work with. I just smile quietly when I see these nature programmes interviewing some earnest beekeeper who is working to reinstate heritage bees, standing there wringing their hands and pleading with other beekeepers to stop importing foreign bees. That beekeeper obviously doesn't know that many beekeepers at the time of Isle of Wight disease were quietly glad to be rid of them and introduce docile Italian or calmer on the comb Carniolan bees. How do I know that - I read old beekeeping books.

Now it is being suggested that our docile bees are defenceless against the Asian Hornet I can see adverts appearing that offer security with "our highly defensive strain of English bee" - load of rubbish. The bees are learning quickly.
 #8153  by AdamD
 09 Jul 2020, 11:24
I often find that I need to re-queen swarms as they are not that well-behaved. Their behaviour tends to develop over a couple of weeks - they usually start off OK. One last year was very flighty for 2 months after a (swift) requeening.

This year I have two in the apiary, both came with mated queens. One is lovely and is in need of a bigger box as the bees are bearding out the front of an 8 frame Paynes box. A rare treat - so far at least. As this is in the 'How not to keep bees' section, I should point out that I hived them away from the main part of the apiary and I have been slowly moving them to somewhere more sensible - although they are still on the wrong side of a hedge. The next move will see the entrance stuffed into a hole in the hedge to force the bees in from the other side of it. Then I can lift them over. (It's a low hedge). I should have planned their position a bit better in the first place!

The other "swarm' I have is a cut-out which survived the winter in a concrete tree-trunk table-leg but doesn't do anything and has needed feeding constantly. They have now produced swarm cells despite being a small stock.
 #8154  by AndrewLD
 09 Jul 2020, 11:30
Chrisbarlow wrote:
08 Jul 2020, 18:40
This is a good talk by Randy Oliver where he talks about what can make bees aggressive ...

https://youtu.be/OcfqTx4_FAo
Thank you Chris - pure gold. Randy is one of my go to beekeepers when I am looking for advice. Just watched the whole 1hr 21 minutes.....
 #8166  by nealh
 10 Jul 2020, 00:53
I collected a swarm April 2019 quite early in the month this was following another swarm collected across the road at the same location by another beek. I didn't really want them as I had enough colonies but installed it at the wife's gran's bungalow in 3/4 acre of land, they returned an 80lb harvest last year and are a delight to have. The Q is very light /yellow in colour and may well be a lingustica sub specie, no defensive traits noticed, can stand at the entrance without being bothered and happily work around them with no suit on. No following or running on the comb, no climbing on hands and very rarely need smoke when handling and to boot quite good foragers. Every thing you wish bees can be.
They produced four or five Qc's late May so allowed the now clipped Q to swarm and collected them from under the UFE & installed the swarm in to a nuc. Nuc by the side of the existing colony which is now in BS Nat deep building up again very nicely with seven frames of EUS.
The new mated Q has mated very well and the traits have remained as before and no difference in characteristics, last week and today checked both in overcast showery conditions with no adverse reaction. The new Q has laid up 12 frames of nice brood and so far this year removed a 69lb spring harvest during May.

Sometimes you can luck in with a swarm and I certainly have so far with the original colony and the new and old queen, I have others colonies which are ok to work with though can be a bit tetchy with the weather.
I have a good foundation to work with and these bees I need to propagate some more queens next year to head my other colonies, whether they are swarmy or not I won't know till next year but probably down to the extra mild/warm early spring we had as well as a quick build up even on B&H with a poly BB ( Now the on double brood).