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Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 10:08
by Lua Lua
Hi all.

I want to combine 2 colonies, 1 in a polynuc and the other , a small , weak colony in a wooden National 14x12 box. I can only see 2-3 seams of bees through the perspex roof. I haven’t inspected inside either as too cool when I have been around (they’re in my garden, SW London), but assume both queenright as pollen going in. Rather than putting on another 14x12 brood box on top and dummying down, is there any way I can do the equivalent of a newspaper unite by adding the 6 nuc frames to the small colony’s box if I remove spare frames? A horizontal unite. Presumably I would have to remove one of the queens, probably keeping the nuc queen. Both new, home-bred queens last year, and calm and productive.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 11:22
by NigelP
Yes, you should remove one of the queens before uniting.
Liberally spray both colonies with air freshener and put all the frames together in one box and job done. I'm assuming both are very close together so if you only leave one box on site all the flier's will have nowhere else to think of as "home".

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 11:46
by Lua Lua
Air freshner?? Really? It sounds horrible, but I suppose would mask pheromones, so may prevent fighting.

Yes, the 2 colonies are only a couple of metres apart.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 11:54
by Chrisbarlow
I would inspect and make sure your 100% happy about uniting them. They might be bigger than you think. It will also let you assess which is the better queen, one might be more calm or have a better brood pattern.

I have used air freshner before now, it works really well. Good luck

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 16:12
by NigelP
Lua Lua wrote:
23 Mar 2019, 11:46
Air freshner?? Really? It sounds horrible, but I suppose would mask pheromones, so may prevent fighting.

Yes, the 2 colonies are only a couple of metres apart.
It works it's not horrible...smells nice as well.
If you want to think what's horrible work out all the "nasties" in the smoke we routinely use on bees such as carbon monoxide, cyanide; to name but a few from a very long list of nasties.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 19:03
by Patrick
Hi lua lua

Tale a pause before uniting and ask why they might be small before uniting.

It’s still very early in the season and quite normal to have big and small colonies which could quickly expand yet. But if there is a problem keeping them small uniting may not help. Just because you can only see a couple of seams thru the crownboard may not be conclusive.

If you want to free up kit or reduce numbers then fair enough.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:23 Mar 2019, 20:29
by AdamD
Without inspecting, I would not be planning to unite - unless there is another reason why you only want one colony. A 14 x 12 box is quite big and can make the size of the colony look small when in fact it is doing fine. If you do decide to unite, yes, you need to remove the unwanted queen but do check that there is no disease which could be the cause for a small colony. Look for larvae that are not c shaped and pearly white, and chalk brood mummies. Also check there is no signs of disentry on the top bars. If bees are flying, then it's generally warm enough to inspect - as there is a fairly thin covering of bees (over brood) at this time of year as they are trying hard to expand the colony, a quick check is best if it's not too warm.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:27 Jun 2020, 13:10
by SimnFishr
Just wondering whether to unite a queen less nuc with a recently swarmed colony containing a sealed queen cell using air freshener (as described above). I reckon the queen cell was sealed about 2 days ago so will be a few days before emerging. I haven’t tried air freshener before but in this situation, the speediness plus able to do 2 into 1 box is an attractive idea. Any thoughts or advice?

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:27 Jun 2020, 13:26
by Patrick
You are uniting two different colonies and reliant on the single queen cell to requeen them. In that situation before uniting I would surround the queen cell with a small wrap of Kitchen foil creating a tube with the tip exposed for the queen to emerge through. . It’s a very small risk the cell gets damaged, but I do it routinely anyway.

If you don’t fancy air freshener then smoking both boxes and whilst uniting heavily achieves the same outcome. Uniting during a flow is generally better than in a dearth. They should be fine.

Re: Uniting in 1 box?

PostPosted:27 Jun 2020, 13:55
by SimnFishr
Thanks Patrick. Bramble is flowering well so just about out of the June gap and a bit of a flow going on.
Would you suggest mixing the frames up as they go in or 2 blocks of 6 frames from each?