ethics

[Alfred]

I've got one colony of feisty mongrels
I've had worse in the past but these stand out against all the others.
I have got to know them and have learned to work around this-attacking machinery near the hives aside which is more amusing than inconvenient.
They're good hardy bees too ,out foraging and orienting in early January
They weren't fed in autumn,having only fondant over winter, and have slowly increased numbers all along
But:
They arrived as a swarm and probably will leave that way,potentially causing problems for non beekeepers.

I initially wanted to requeen,perhaps even with my own home grown one.
But the behaviour will continue until she's purged out the old dna,and the old girls boys will already be out on the town keeping it going.

So I should cull now?

[Steve 1972]

I would clip her for now...i clip all of mine and i may loose the Queen but not the work force apart from when i miss them hard to see Queen cells..

[thewoodgatherer]

I really don’t like culling a queen just because she’s producing anti social bees, especially when they have so many plus points. I helped a beek cull the queen in the hive from hell last year. Took two days to find her having split it three ways. I got nailed getting out of the van 30m away the first day I arrived.
Got stung through my bee suite and countless through the gloves within seconds.
The thing was they were not just strong but the queen was laying frames end to end.
And the honey was coming in super fast, one very productive, healthy colony and not one to worry about wasps or even hornets.
The problem was you couldn’t have a hive like this anywhere near the public within 50m I reckon. I guess every case is different isn’t it.

[Alfred]

The dilemma is that nature has done a good job with this lot -they're hardy,tough and take nonsense from no-one - perfect survivors.
But just because humans are around they're considered undesirable!
What about the drone issue though - for the same reasons should the drones be let loose on surrounding colonies?

[Patrick]

I think putting this issue under title “ethics“ is a good point. We have a responsibility to the bees but we also have a responsibility to our neighbours and our neighbouring beekeepers. Fussy bees are one thing, overtly aggressive is another.

As you say, her drones may contribute to other colonies becoming more tetchy in circumstances (such as garden hives) which are intolerable. That won’t start to be an issue for a good few weeks yet, so plenty of time to make a plan.

I would dequeen and unite with another colony in the Spring. Her progeny will give a boost to another colony and you will have a progressively pleasanter time and an easy conscience. A hypothetical few more pots of honey foregone is a trade off worth taking.

I wonder if the historic labelling of the colony breeding female as a “Queen” has allowed some romanticism to be attached to them and a feeling we are bound to protected and preserve them at all cost. After all workers may die off at a rate of a thousand or more a day and nobody bats an eyelid. If the single fertile female is considered in any way lacking by the bees, they simply supercedure her.

[AdamD]

Beekeeping with nasty (to us) bees is no fun and could cause you other grief - and they will only get more difficult as the colony gets bigger this season so I would remove the queen and unite to a gentle colony in spring using the newspaper method. Depending on where the hive is in relation to others, you could move it on a good flying day so the foragers find the hive closest to where it was, placing the hive next to the one you want to unite to. This will strengthen one colony that takes the foragers. Then after a couple of days, unite it to your preferred colony using the newspaper method which will strengthen that too. Without the flyers, the queen will be easier to find and uniting will be even more likely to succeed. (Newspaper is spring is pretty reliable in any case).
Whether you wanted to keep the queen and one frame of brood and a few shaken in bees and food as a small nucleus colony which could later take a queencell or a better queen, that's up to you; it''s something I would consider. By the time you had a queen or queecell available, the small colony would have grown and be a good size for a viable nuc to survive winter, or use as you wish.

[Alfred]

Thanks for the input chaps.
The drone thing isn't leaving me in peace.
Perhaps I'm overthinking it too much.

This lot are way ahead of the curve - would there be likely drone brood already?
I don't want to be digging around in there just yet so roughly when should she start laying it?

If I could get the sealed brood into the freezer immediately after a unite (or a shake onto to a few empty frames?) then this would become a win /win.
What's the opinion?

Patrick I suppose the "Queen" label would be more relevent in winter than summer when any attempt at raising their own new queen would go unfertilised.

[Patrick]

Around me I would not expect to see many drones before April. Flying drones are naturally produced to coincide with the typical swarming season in your locality. In mine (depending on the weather) that is not until May / June.

I don’t think I would bother with freezing brood. They don’t sound like they merit it. You have a plan and are responsibly addressing the issue, good on yer Guv’nor!

[NigelP]

As beekeepers we are responsible for our charges. Whilst we may not get it perfect....it beholds us to re-queen hives with defensive behaviour for out own and our neighbours wellbeing. No ethics just practical bee management.
Also I'm not sure whether these adverse traits have any bearing on their actual survival percentages in the wild. Currently the bees we keep are usually de-parasitized and fed to get through the winter....not a situation that develops natural resilience.... despite their temper .......or lack of it with good management..

[SeanK]

Is temperament a trait that comes from the queen or the drones?
If it's the drones then the temperament may change - I've noticed colonies which do change over time.