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  • What Bees? And why?

  • General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
General Q&A, Bee chat and only Bee chat please
 #9237  by Bobbysbees
 14 Oct 2020, 23:58
Almost all the information i found seemed to point to Buckfast as the best choice for beginners.
They are "normally" pretty docile on the comb, productive nectar gatherers as well as fair for pollen. Not prone to be swarm happy and good early build up.
Be interesting to see what others have gone for and why. :?:
 #9242  by NigelP
 15 Oct 2020, 10:12
They are good bees but there are problems when breeding from them as they become more mongrelised. First port of call should be to assess what the local bees in your area are like. If they are nice, calm and not aggressive then they might present a better and easier to manage choice. If they are like my locals (bees from hell) then Buckfast/Italian/Carniolan would be suggested choices to look at.
But be careful who you buy from, it really is caveat emptor in the queen bee selling world. I once bought some supposed Carniolan queens from a well advertised bee seller that would chase me and my truck 1/2 mile down the track....and that was before they were inspected :)
 #9244  by Patrick
 15 Oct 2020, 10:22
May depend on the choices available to you and what you want from your bees. My local bees are reasonable in most respects and suit me as a hobbyist. I produce as much honey as I can readily sell or give away. I am a bit of a self-sufficient sort, so not particularly into relying on buying other people’s bred queens year on year to maintain the reported benefits. An awful lot of sellers describe their bees as Buckfast, so if you go down that route do your research on suppliers.

If my circumstances were different, I might make different choices.
 #9247  by Bobbysbees
 15 Oct 2020, 12:19
I have to say that when i bought my first nuc back in early June ,that came from a very nice gent down in county Durham. I think i got lucky. The bees were just as he described them.Really calm very orange/yellow buckfast types. The queen was a 2019 over wintered one and they filled out the extra 6 frame box i stacked on them so pulled 2 frames of honey when i put them over into a ten frame box. About 4 litres of thin syrup onto them and they drew out the super on it and have got it packed ready to go into winter.
Going to split them next year and try to get a new queen from there line.
My second nuc i bought online mail order back in early July from BeeEquipment. Got them no problem, certainly better than carrying them home on the bus like the first one.
No problems with them expanding as they slamed out a 10 frame and a second in no time. But after the first round with Apistan just in time for the wasps to find them in late August they turned a bit psycho and have been getting a few (only 2 or 3) following us back to the house after inspections. We always do the bee dance with the other wafting the smoker before heading in to the back door. But we always seem to miss one lol. So its out with a glass tumbler and sheet of paper to evict them.
I figure its because the queen is this years and a bit young so not as strong in pheromones. Plus they came from down south possibly where there wasnt as much pressure from pests and lets face it who like the cold in the Scottish Boreders.
Last edited by Bobbysbees on 15 Oct 2020, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.
 #9248  by Beeblebrox
 15 Oct 2020, 12:23
You're aware that crossing breeds usually gives aggressive F2 crosses?

Buckfasts are already F1 (basically Italian + Amm)

Recipe for an exciting life. Also for every beek nearby using a different race because you will make their bees aggressive too.

Ditto imported Italians, Carniolans etc. Use a local swarm. It will likely have a degree of mite resistance too.

Ask your local BKA's oldest members what they use.
 #9249  by huntsman.
 15 Oct 2020, 12:50
Hello Beeblebrox.

You say; <Buckfasts are already F1 (basically Italian + Amm)>

Only goodness knows what makes a so-called Buckfast today but Amm is not in the mix.
 #9250  by Bobbysbees
 15 Oct 2020, 13:52
I will see what they are like when the flow starts next year. As im fairly sure that with the weather the last 3 weeks the cold and lack of forage is probably going to make any colony a bit on the defensive side. As well as like i said my original queen will be hitting her 3rd year next spring so according to most sources will likely need replacing anyway. I had a bit of peek in to the brood box today and the brood nest is very small a little under ostrich egg size on about 4 frames. That said the super and brood box were slammed with bees.
Will check my 2020 hive tomorrow and see how they are, i try never to do them both on the same day inspection wise to minimize cross contamination as well as robbing. Only time i do both on one day is for treatments and feeding. And then its with separate hive tools and different gloves for pretty much the same reasons.
 #9251  by Bobbysbees
 15 Oct 2020, 13:58
huntsman. wrote:
15 Oct 2020, 12:50
Hello Beeblebrox.

You say; <Buckfasts are already F1 (basically Italian + Amm)>

Only goodness knows what makes a so-called Buckfast today but Amm is not in the mix.
As the Buckfasts i got were imported ones from a reputable breeder in Italy "so i was told" i wouldnt of thought that AMM would be in there either.
As i understand it AMMs are on the small side, defensive in temperament and tend to be rather swarmy. Not something i think id choose. Then again it depends on the local area and what you want to get out of your own beekeeping.
 #9252  by Beeblebrox
 15 Oct 2020, 14:17
Buckfasts were originally a cross between ligustica and French / Irish black bees, which I tend to think of as equivalent to Amm; with traces of other races. This is documented in many places, the first hit I got is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_bee#Heritage

However in a BIBBA Zoom lecture a couple of nights ago, the speaker mentioned they are mainly ligustica now (as you say) and this shows particularly in their mitochondrial DNA.